jolo9534
XS650 Enthusiast
hi guys i was wondering what would the the pros and cons of using the hand lever to activate front and rear brakes?
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front and rear brake on same lever
- Thread starter jolo9534
- Start date
mrriggs
XS650 Junkie
Pros; If you only had one foot then it would allow you to still ride and probably provide better braking than the front brake alone.
Cons: You have no way to modulate the rear brake alone. If it slides you need to let up on both brakes which will negatively affect stopping distance. A proportioning valve could be added to limit the rear brakes which would help but would likely need to be turned down so far that the rear brakes would provide little to no assistance.
Cons: You have no way to modulate the rear brake alone. If it slides you need to let up on both brakes which will negatively affect stopping distance. A proportioning valve could be added to limit the rear brakes which would help but would likely need to be turned down so far that the rear brakes would provide little to no assistance.
Pros? Not sure...I have a motorized bike that has one lever for front/back brake...once you get the pull set up so that the front grabs more than the back, it's kind of nice to not have to worry about the rear. But on a motorcycle, I'm not sure I want to always have the front/rear connected...see cons.
Cons:
1) When I ride through loose gravel/sand or even wet conditions, I tend to use my rear WAY more than my front... in a slippery situation, having the front brake lock and slide out do to over braking is a recipe for disaster, whereas the back will slide without the bike going down. Having no control over that would be my # 1 reason not to...
2) Depending on the bike (Disk front/drum rear)...the engineering to get them to work together may be a pain... rear disk wouldn't be as bad...although you'd need to come up with a Y or T connection for the brake hose...but likely doable.
3) I'm sure there are other reasons to not, but this is all I got right now.
Cons:
1) When I ride through loose gravel/sand or even wet conditions, I tend to use my rear WAY more than my front... in a slippery situation, having the front brake lock and slide out do to over braking is a recipe for disaster, whereas the back will slide without the bike going down. Having no control over that would be my # 1 reason not to...
2) Depending on the bike (Disk front/drum rear)...the engineering to get them to work together may be a pain... rear disk wouldn't be as bad...although you'd need to come up with a Y or T connection for the brake hose...but likely doable.
3) I'm sure there are other reasons to not, but this is all I got right now.
jolo9534
XS650 Enthusiast
i see, guess its like not having a rear brake at all then. thanks
Hi jolo,
The pro:-
It'd work real easy on your '79 because the 35mm fork's front brake master is too big to operate it's single front caliper nicely but it runs dual front calipers just perfect so it should also run one front plus one rear caliper just nicely too. Best you swap to stainless brake hoses though.
The cons:-
1) You lose the ability to operate the brakes independently and that may give you less than optimum emergency stop ability.
2) You might get a ticket. Most jurisdictions vehicle laws say "Two independent braking systems" and coupled brakes ain't independent.
Note that big cruisers with coupled brakes get around this by having the footbrake operate the rear disk and one front disk and having the other front disk operated by the front brake lever.
weaselbeak
XS650 Junkie
Moto Guzzi used linked brakes for decades, via the brake pedal. Rear brake and one front disc on the pedal, the other front disc on the hand lever. Works very well..I think you would have a bit of an issue getting enough leverage for your hand to provide enough grip to power both front and rear brakes, as you'd have to leverage 3 brakes.. Maybe if you have only one front disc, and you'd lose the power of the 2nd front disc. I think the ratio was 70 front & 30 rear on the Guzzis, not sure.
Max Midnight
XS650 Addict
My 2007 Honda ST1300 has linked ABS brakes and they really are amazing. Each caliper has 3 pistons and two hydraulic connections, but the bike has what initially appear to be conventional controls that operate as follows (pay attention now - this is complicated 
):
- the FRONT brake lever actuates: the outer two pistons on both front calipers and the middle piston on the rear caliper;
- the REAR brake pedal actuates: the outer two pistons on the rear caliper and the middle piston on each of the two front calipers.
The hydraulic system on the ST1300 is very complex (bleeding the system is quite the task) - but boy, it sure work well to slow that 730 lb motorcycle like it is a sport bike. I guess this means that you cannot operate the brakes on just one end of the bike - but who would ever use this thing as a flat-tracker anyway.
I can't see an easy way to put a linked brake system on an XS650 - without an awful lot of complication and extra hoses and hydraulic lines sprinkled around the bike. Frankly, I doubt that its worth it.
Pete
):- the FRONT brake lever actuates: the outer two pistons on both front calipers and the middle piston on the rear caliper;
- the REAR brake pedal actuates: the outer two pistons on the rear caliper and the middle piston on each of the two front calipers.
The hydraulic system on the ST1300 is very complex (bleeding the system is quite the task) - but boy, it sure work well to slow that 730 lb motorcycle like it is a sport bike. I guess this means that you cannot operate the brakes on just one end of the bike - but who would ever use this thing as a flat-tracker anyway.
I can't see an easy way to put a linked brake system on an XS650 - without an awful lot of complication and extra hoses and hydraulic lines sprinkled around the bike. Frankly, I doubt that its worth it.
Pete
Hi Max,
it's not so much the high price that appalls me, ( I do know the costs involved in making good stuff for a limited market) as the US supplier's marking the price up by $655!
That's a fair chunk of a round trip economy ticket to the UK so you could buy one there.
Hi Pete,
Nah, it's dead easy, (see my post #5)
Double length banjo bolt on the front brake lever, one stainless hose to the front caliper and a second one to the rear caliper.
But it'd be a BAD system because it'd give the same squeeze to the rear as it does to the front while what's needed is about 70% front and 30% rear.
I'd suppose it'd need a proportioning valve in the rear brake line to fix that and while that's certainly a complication it ain't the hydraulic rat's nest you envision.
As to if it's worth it, perhaps we should ask the OP?
Hi Jolo, WTF are you up to with this, eh?
upthemaiden
XS650 Enthusiast
I was gonna say as far as the 70/30 split, having a bigger front brake and a bigger front rotor would give the front more braking power than that small rear rotor/caliper, but then I remembered the front rotor on the xs isn't that big either.
i can't imagine even considering linking both brakes unless as Mr Riggs points out above you're short one functional foot. but then deleting the front brake, suicide shifters, and straight pipes don't cut it for me either...
any performance riding should be based on the tried and true both hands/both feet setup. we bikers are already at a distinct disadvantage versus other vehicles, large animals, loose gravel, and wet or oily pavement. why make it worse?
any performance riding should be based on the tried and true both hands/both feet setup. we bikers are already at a distinct disadvantage versus other vehicles, large animals, loose gravel, and wet or oily pavement. why make it worse?
weaselbeak
XS650 Junkie
You overlook the fact that most riders are incapable of using brakes properly under extreme circumstances. Guzzis linked setup is far safer for the average rider. Of course a real pro would want the unlinked. I saw road tests back in the 80's where test riders were surprised at how well the Guzzi brakes worked in the real world.
this is not a fancy factory equipped Motoguzzi. OP is talking about a (i assume) DIY chopped XS. still i would never link the brakes anyway.
you can't trail brake in high speed corners, you can't transition from front to back at stop signs or select how much overall wear you want to put where, your throttle hand is constrained if you have to hold a full stop with the right handlebar lever on even a slight incline, and it's fractions of a second faster to hit the rear brake pedal to scrub speed in an emergency. my two cents.
you can't trail brake in high speed corners, you can't transition from front to back at stop signs or select how much overall wear you want to put where, your throttle hand is constrained if you have to hold a full stop with the right handlebar lever on even a slight incline, and it's fractions of a second faster to hit the rear brake pedal to scrub speed in an emergency. my two cents.
