My experience with the xs charge and XSCharge electronic advance ignitions

[Redlined24]

I’m a new member who has been lurking awhile and learning a lot from others post. I wanted to make a post detailing my experience with the xs charge ignitions because it may help someone else.

The bike I’m currently working on came to me with a malfunctioning Pamco (previous owner had wired the unit incorrectly.) I didn’t have the original points/ points plate or I would have just installed them and been finished.

I ordered the red xs charge unit that uses the standard advance weight assembly and fired the bike up, it ran pretty well. Test rode around the block a few times and went back to the shop to do some checks before I took off for a longer ride.

When I went to restart the bike it wouldn’t fire, no spark. I checked all my wiring, rechecked the coil to make sure it checkout with the voltmeter and found no issues. I tried to start it again and it started up. I just assumed maybe I had a loose connection on the coil so I recrimped my spade connectors just to make myself feel better and took off for a ten mile ride where I had no issues.

The next morning I went to restart the bike and once again had no spark. I emailed mikes xs and the rep replied with some ohm readings I could check and when I responded with my readings they verified I had received a defective ignition unit.

The rep from mikes informed me this has been a common issue with the red units and they didn’t have anymore in stock but they could send me an electronic advance (blue) unit as a replacement. I didn’t like the idea of replacing even more mechanical parts (the advance weights) and relying on more electronics but at that point I figured I would give it a shot because as I stated I don’t have the original points or points plate.

They shipped the new unit out that same day (Monday) and I received it 4 days later. Very quick turn around for a replacement part. The customer service was great.

When received the new unit I removed my advance plate as described in the instructions and installed the replacement spacer provided with the kit, then installed the replacement ignition and rotor on the left side of the bike. started it and proceeded to set the timing. The bike ran great..... for about 30 seconds and died.

When I tried to restart the bike and I was getting multiple kickbacks and coughs from the carbs. Because of experience with other bikes I knew that was a timing issue. Upon further investigation I found that the rollpin on the right side of the cam ( the xs charge kit spacer that replace the advance weights keys into it and drives the advance rod) had fallen out.

No big deal... I put the rollpin back in with some locktite “bearing and sleeve retainer” to hold it in place so I won’t have to worry about it coming out again. the next morning I started the bike up again and reset the timing. It ran pretty well...... until I took the bike off the lift and put it on the kickstand.

During all of this the bike has been standing upright on a lift and as soon as I took it off the lift and leaned it over onto the kickstand it sputtered and died. I figured that was just a coincidence so I restarted it and leaned it over again and the same thing happened... cough cough sputter die.

I assumed I may have a float height issue and when I leaned the bike over it wasn’t getting enough or getting too much fuel so I pulled the carbs and double checked everything but that wasn’t the issue.

The issue turned out to be that the trigger rotor on the XSCharge unit (what would replace the points cam on a points setup) was shifting to the left on the advance rod when I would lean the bike over. Apparently it was shifting just far enough that it wouldn’t trigger the ignition.

As the bike was running I could set the bike on the kickstand If I held pressure on the advance rod and it would run fine. As soon as I let pressure off the rod the bike would die. The fix for that was to add another washer onto the end of the advance rod so it holds the trigger rotor snug and there’s no movement “in or out” on the advance rod.

These issues are easy to fix but the fact that they aren’t addressed in the instructions and the fact that these units seem to be fairly unreliable is why I wanted to post what I have encountered so far.

 

[jetmechmarty]

Thanks for the review. I’m pretty much convinced it’s a product to be avoided. I think the majority of folks don’t have the skill set to T/S and make it work. This opinion is based solely upon what has been posted on this board. I have no direct experience.
I do find that the Revival Parts Group (MikesXS, Dime City, etc) are very fast responders. They ship immediately.

 

[Redlined24]

I agree. I know there are some members who have had zero issues with these units but I’m very leery of the reliability now. In hindsight I wish I would have used the money I spent on the first unit to buy a used factory points setup.

 

[DogBunny]

Great write-up.
I made the mistake of buying a red XS-Charge ignition a couple of weeks ago. Among other problems that had to be overcome, and which "I think the majority of folks don’t have the skill set to make work," I too experienced the rotor problem that you described. The magnets on the rotor are too far to the left. My fix was to shave the rotor on the engine side, thus shifting the rotor (and magnets) to the right.
Worked for a while, but I now have a different problem.
Redlined24, can you please post the ohm readings that the MikesXS rep gave you.

BTW, the first problem I had to overcome was that the red unit could not be rotated far enough to get the timing right. I slotted the backing plate with a Dremel as far as was possible, but that wasn't enough. So, I shaved the heads of the hold-down screws and shaved one side of the washers, that gained me a little more, but still wasn't enough. Next, I filed one side of the rotor keyway, got a little more, but this was slow and tedious, so finally I shaved a bit off of the keyway alignment pin. Now I could achieve proper timing and even have a little timing adjustment capable.
I have since bought a Trytronic, still waiting to arrive, and a Boyer (expensive), and I greatly regret buying the XS-Charge.

 

[Mailman]

I’m a new member who has been lurking awhile and learning a lot from others post. I wanted to make a post detailing my experience with the xs charge ignitions because it may help someone else.

The bike I’m currently working on came to me with a malfunctioning Pamco (previous owner had wired the unit incorrectly.) I didn’t have the original points/ points plate or I would have just installed them and been finished.

I ordered the red xs charge unit that uses the standard advance weight assembly and fired the bike up, it ran pretty well. Test rode around the block a few times and went back to the shop to do some checks before I took off for a longer ride.

When I went to restart the bike it wouldn’t fire, no spark. I checked all my wiring, rechecked the coil to make sure it checkout with the voltmeter and found no issues. I tried to start it again and it started up. I just assumed maybe I had a loose connection on the coil so I recrimped my spade connectors just to make myself feel better and took off for a ten mile ride where I had no issues.

The next morning I went to restart the bike and once again had no spark. I emailed mikes xs and the rep replied with some ohm readings I could check and when I responded with my readings they verified I had received a defective ignition unit.

The rep from mikes informed me this has been a common issue with the red units and they didn’t have anymore in stock but they could send me an electronic advance (blue) unit as a replacement. I didn’t like the idea of replacing even more mechanical parts (the advance weights) and relying on more electronics but at that point I figured I would give it a shot because as I stated I don’t have the original points or points plate.

They shipped the new unit out that same day (Monday) and I received it 4 days later. Very quick turn around for a replacement part. The customer service was great.

When received the new unit I removed my advance plate as described in the instructions and installed the replacement spacer provided with the kit, then installed the replacement ignition and rotor on the left side of the bike. started it and proceeded to set the timing. The bike ran great..... for about 30 seconds and died.

When I tried to restart the bike and I was getting multiple kickbacks and coughs from the carbs. Because of experience with other bikes I knew that was a timing issue. Upon further investigation I found that the rollpin on the right side of the cam ( the xs charge kit spacer that replace the advance weights keys into it and drives the advance rod) had fallen out.

No big deal... I put the rollpin back in with some locktite “bearing and sleeve retainer” to hold it in place so I won’t have to worry about it coming out again. the next morning I started the bike up again and reset the timing. It ran pretty well...... until I took the bike off the lift and put it on the kickstand.

During all of this the bike has been standing upright on a lift and as soon as I took it off the lift and leaned it over onto the kickstand it sputtered and died. I figured that was just a coincidence so I restarted it and leaned it over again and the same thing happened... cough cough sputter die.

I assumed I may have a float height issue and when I leaned the bike over it wasn’t getting enough or getting too much fuel so I pulled the carbs and double checked everything but that wasn’t the issue.

The issue turned out to be that the trigger rotor on the XSCharge unit (what would replace the points cam on a points setup) was shifting to the left on the advance rod when I would lean the bike over. Apparently it was shifting just far enough that it wouldn’t trigger the ignition.

As the bike was running I could set the bike on the kickstand If I held pressure on the advance rod and it would run fine. As soon as I let pressure off the rod the bike would die. The fix for that was to add another washer onto the end of the advance rod so it holds the trigger rotor snug and there’s no movement “in or out” on the advance rod.

These issues are easy to fix but the fact that they aren’t addressed in the instructions and the fact that these units seem to be fairly unreliable is why I wanted to post what I have encountered so far.

Nicely written , clear and easy to follow along, thanks for the review!

 

[Redlined24]

 

[Redlined24]

That is the info they sent over. Sorry it’s the same page posted twice on accident. All test are done with the unit unwired from the bike.

 

[DogBunny]

That is the info they sent over. Sorry it’s the same page posted twice on accident. All test are done with the unit unwired from the bike.

Thank you for the specs. Mine failed the test. Just to be sure, I shaved even more of the engine side of the rotor off, and tried various magnet depths within the pick-up unit. Mine is now bad.
The local guru told me that the red units are prone to failure after they get hot. I road tested the bike with the points cover removed, to keep the unit cooler, just in case, and did maybe 20 miles this way. Then, I put the cover on and did some freeway speed driving, maybe another 10 miles, and the ignition failed soon after. The ignition was running one moment, and quit the next.
Now, onward to trying get a refund from MikesXS.

 

[jetmechmarty]

Now, onward to trying get a refund from MikesXS.

I'm curious to know how that works out.

 

[WideAWAKE]

Hmmm these problems are quite possibly what happens when you steal a design and ship it overseas to be budget built. I personally don’t understand why anyone spends a dollar at Mikes.

 

[DogBunny]

I'm curious to know how that works out.

It took a few fairly amicable email exchanges, but MikesXS is giving me a refund. I had to give them the results of my ohmmeter testing.
Now I have to ship the failed unit back to them on my dime before they refund me. This seems like a waste of time. As for me paying the return shipping -- well, according to their terms, electrical parts aren't warrantied, so I guess I shouldn't squawk, and it's only a few dollars.

 

[Redlined24]

Honestly I’m surprised they offered a refund. I just assumed they would only do an exchange. it is a hassle I have to ship it back and we shouldn’t be dealing with any of these issues in the first place BUT the customer service department has been doing a great job.

 

[jetmechmarty]

This is good news. I’ve had at least one positive customer service with the current ownership as well.

 

[Jim]

BUT the customer service department has been doing a great job.

I’ve had at least one positive customer service with the current ownership as well.

I've got a more cynical view....

Great parts and great customer service equals a great company.

Shitty parts and great customer service means you'll probably stay in business

Shitty parts and shitty customer service means a quick demise.

Mikes falls into the middle category. Just speaking for myself... they get no credit for that. A part that's junk needs to come off the market.... full stop. Mikes continues to sell them though. They think that a shitty part and a "reacharound" that puts a smile on your face will keep folks coming back for more. Unfortunately that business model appears to be working just fine for them.

 

[jetmechmarty]

Mikes falls into the middle category. Just speaking for myself... they get no credit for that. A part that's junk needs to come off the market.... full stop. Mikes continues to sell them though. They think that a shitty part and a "reacharound" that puts a smile on your face will keep folks coming back for more. Unfortunately that business model appears to be working just fine for them.

I agree completely, but the sentiment can be applied to the entire Revival Parts Group and probably a very large part of the vintage motorcycle parts industry. For example, I won’t buy a reproduction XS650 charging rotor from anyone, as I assume it’s the same substandard part, no matter who is selling it. It’s either deal with it or find a new hobby.

 

[WideAWAKE]

Not tryin to wizz in your cheerios but how is that good customer service?

They sold you junk, you’re on the hook to ship it back??

 

[WideAWAKE]

I agree completely, but the sentiment can be applied to the entire Revival Parts Group and probably a very large part of the vintage motorcycle parts industry. For example, I won’t buy a reproduction XS650 charging rotor from anyone, as I assume it’s the same substandard part, no matter who is selling it. It’s either deal with it or find a new hobby.

With the expectation of 4into1 it’s been my experience that the CB market is different that the XS market.

The 4 suppliers I used for my restoration all sold quality parts and the 1 part I did have a problem with (a repop side mirror that the glass fell out) the company send out a replacement the same day on their dime, all without me even asking for one. I just emailed them to let em know it failed.

 

[Redlined24]

I feel like there is some confusion about my comment.

I’m not trying to say that the customer service makes up for the fact that they are selling a defective part. What I’m saying is at least they are responsive to messages and try to help troubleshoot the issue before quickly shipping a replacement out or apparently are willing issue a refund instead of a replacement.

Do I think these ignitions should still be on the market after all of the problems we (the customers) have had with them? Absolutely not.

Am I happy about the experience I have had with the xs charge ignitions? No

SHOULD they issue refunds when a customer receives defective units? Yes

Do they HAVE to send out multiple replacements or issue refunds? no they don’t. With an electrical component they could easily claim that there was an installation error on the customers side, an overcharging issue that damaged it, or multiple other excuses for them to not replace or refund.

Is it a good product? No it’s not.

Have I had a decent experience with them as a company tryin my to resolve the issue? So far yes


Once again, I’m not saying anyone should buy this ignition, my original post is advising against it. Also I didn’t know about them taking the design from someone else and reverse engineering it to resell. that makes sense on why there are so many issues.

 

[jetmechmarty]

I feel like there is some confusion about my comment.

I’m not trying to say that the customer service makes up for the fact that they are selling a defective part. What I’m saying is at least they are responsive to messages and try to help troubleshoot the issue before quickly shipping a replacement out or apparently are willing issue a refund instead of a replacement.

Do I think these ignitions should still be on the market after all of the problems we (the customers) have had with them? Absolutely not.

Am I happy about the experience I have had with the xs charge ignitions? No

SHOULD they issue refunds when a customer receives defective units? Yes

Do they HAVE to send out multiple replacements or issue refunds? no they don’t. With an electrical component they could easily claim that there was an installation error on the customers side, an overcharging issue that damaged it, or multiple other excuses for them to not replace or refund.

Is it a good product? No it’s not.

Have I had a decent experience with them as a company tryin my to resolve the issue? So far yes


Once again, I’m not saying anyone should buy this ignition, my original post is advising against it. Also I didn’t know about them taking the design from someone else and reverse engineering it to resell. that makes sense on why there are so many issues.

No confusion. They sold you a POS, probably knowing it’s a POS. They gave you a refund when you proved smart enough to know they sold you a POS. I got it!

 

[DogBunny]

As for me paying the return shipping -- well, according to their terms, electrical parts aren't warrantied, so I guess I shouldn't squawk, and it's only a few dollars.

Not tryin to wizz in your cheerios but how is that good customer service?

They sold you junk, you’re on the hook to ship it back??

Well, yes, I can squawk plenty. I'm just glad I'm getting a refund from MikesXS' notoriously bad and tight fisted customer service. It is an electrical part, and they aren't warrantied, so I consider my refund to be discretionary.
I only bought the thing because it is a very simple plug and play, HAD IT WORKED. I bought one or two of their early PAMCO clones (AFTER Pete stopped selling the originals), and they worked. I learned too late that the current epoxy-potted versions are famously unreliable. And, I have also since learned that Mikes is well aware of the problems with this particular unit. So, yeah, it's really shitty, and terrible for their reputation to have sold them. They claim to be currently "out" of them -- maybe they finally got wise, and scrapped whatever remining inventory they had.
Furthermore, I wasted an incredible amount of time modifying the backing plate, the rotor keyway, my alignment pin, and ultimately it failed while I was riding. So, no I'm not a happy customer.

I personally don’t understand why anyone spends a dollar at Mikes.

On the other hand, there are at least a few things that MikesXS (and also Lalonde at Yamahaxs650.com) sell that are absolutely unobtainable anywhere else IF YOU ARE DOING A RESTORATION. So, I'm not trying to defend Mikes, but they do serve a purpose in my opinion.