Need some Noob help PAMCO IG.. If any of you pros could lend some insite..

[rustrocket650]

hey everyone, first just wanted to say hi. Im new here and im afraid im a bit of a noob when it comes to the xs650. I found your site while researching awhile back and have been reading ever since. You all have indirectly answered so many questions for me! so already i must say thanks. I finally decided i guess i better post and say hi....

which leads to me my problem... Im sure you guys may have answered some of these questions already but i cant seem to find anything about my issues or atleast anything i understand. so First off.. I have a 79xs all stock motor. I just installed a pamco ignition. All went fine and starts right up. Maybe i can get pamco pete to chime in here somewhere. When i go to time my bike, i know my timing mark needs to be between the "F" marks. I can accomplish this but not with out wedging cardboard between the weights to keep them from opening, Also the only way i can get to the F is if i rotate my plate ALLLL the way counterclockwise and retard the timing to max. No more room for adjustment. Im wondering if i did somthing wrong because this just dosent seem right to me.

Now as for the bike running well heres the other issue.. ITs a dog. when you go to accel. on the throttle it just wants to fall on its face, but you can slowly roll on the throttle to bring up rpms and it sounds just fine. When you roll off the throttle though big backfire out of the right pipe and shoots a huge ball of blue smoke and oil. Only out of the right side though. Now i expect a bit of popping as i dont have any baffles and just my shorty cutoffs on decel. This puff of smoke is what is killing me though.

As i said i am a noob to this stuff so its entirely possible i made a noob mistake, so Please if any one can break some of what maybe the problem down to me, like even in crayola or finger paints i would appreciate it more then you know..

Thanks guys

 

[5twins]

Sounds like the springs on your advance unit are getting weak and your timing chain is stretched out. What's your idle speed set at? You can't set it much above the factory 1200 RPM spec or the ignition will start advancing on you. That may be why you need to wedge the weights closed (or the springs are weak).

 

[rustrocket650]

I thought about that and the springs are actually new. I guess i could try a new set and see what happens. Idle speed is set at factory 1200 rpm as far as i know. Ill have to look into my timing chain, because i for the life of me cannot figure out why my ignition plate has to be full retarded in order to bring my timing mark to "F". Im also not sure if i actually needed to wedge the weights but i did it to see if made a difference.. It did not. wether wedged or not im still cranking that pamco plate counter clockwise as far as i can possible push it to hit my timing mark.
5twins thanks for getting back to me.. i may just have to look into the timing chain..

as for the other problem.. i switched my plug wires to the opposite plug to see if that made a difference in anything.. So with that done im still getting the backfire on decel and the huge puff of smoke, but now with the wires switched im getting smoke out of the left side...? so confused..

thanks again

 

[5twins]

Well, if the problem moves with the plug wire swap, that's gotta tell you the problem is with that plug cap or wire. Are you using a new single coil with dual output (2 plug wires off one coil)? They fire both plugs at the same time (one spark is wasted) and don't usually give one cylinder only firing problems. They either fire both or neither. You could also have badly out of sync carbs.

 

[rustrocket650]

yes its a dual output coil from mikesxs. came with the pamco. Im gonna check the coil and the plug caps tomorrow and see if i can come up with anything, but i was thinking that this is a carb problem. Ive tried two different sets of plugs and still happens with either set. Id really like to get the Timing thing down before i move on the carbs. I figure if i know that the timing is good and im still smoking then i can move on from there.. Ive been searching all over the net and still cant find anything about that pamco being retarded all the way. theres gotta be somthing im missing. Like you said though, timing chain is the only thing i can think of that i havent double and triple checked.

 

[5twins]

When your timing chain gets stretched out on a points equipped bike, you start running out of adjustment slot on the timing plate. I would think this applies to a Pamco as well since it adjusts in the same manner. It's usually a pretty good indication that it's time to replace the chain.

 

[rustrocket650]

5twins, Thanks a bunch for your help. I work on an ambulance so ill be on shift for the next few days as soon as im off i guess ill start to get pulling. Havent replaced a timing chain on a bike so this will be a great learning opp.
Ive read quite a few or your posts and your tech stuff so just wanted to say thanks.

also if anyone else has any ideas let me know please..

 

[CDNTX650]

my chain was stretched on mine before i rebuilt it and i had to notch the slots on the backing plate with a dremmel to get some more adjustment out of it.

 

[rustrocket650]

The other thing that's confusing is it had a pamco on it about 6 months ago. It fried and the bike didn't move again tell now. The last time it ran with the pamco the timing was fine. It was set right about dead center of the slot and just a hair retard from there. Then it fried. So I'm a bit confused by this just because you'd think the last time it was timed it would have been off also?
Thanks

 

[pamcopete]

rustrocket,

The timing chain could be source of the timing issue, although generally, as the timing chain stretches the timing goes retarded.

You can try loosening the PAMCO rotor and hold it in the clockwise position as you tighten the nut to get a couple of extra degrees of retard timing. Do the same thing with the slotted disk on the advance side while holding the rotor in the clockwise position.

Also, the dual output coil produces a positive voltage on one plug wire and a negative on the other. The timing light works best with the negative voltage, but there is no practical way to determine which is which, so just try attaching the timing light to the other plug wire.

You mentioned that you are experiencing sluggish performance as well. That could be caused by the advance rod binding. Check out this video for that potential problem:

The video also shows how the weights should "snap back" with correct springs tension.

It is possible that the PAMCO you have may be out of it's tolerance for timing as well, so if nothing else works, just return it to me and I will replace it with a new one.

You mentioned that you had a PAMCO previously that was fried. Did you return that one for warranty?

 

[rustrocket650]

PAMCOpete, thanks for the tips ill give that a shot and see if it helps out. My weights are snapping back like they should and the spring tension is good. Ill try everything i can first before sending it back. hopefully i can get it working with having to do that.. also no i have not sent one back to you yet.
Thanks for your help and the video.. as soon as i get off the ambulance ill try this and see if it works and let you know..
thanks again

 

[pumps]

Maybe I missed it in the posts but have you tried to adjust the cam chain?