XS650 Won't Rev

BaronJess

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Hey everyone back again.

If you don't know im the guy that bought an 81 Herritage import thats had (for some reason) Wassel electronic Ignition fitted (meant for a Triumph/BSA) anyway i fixed the issue that had me here last time which was backfiring due to the wrong coil however the more i look into this bike the more i feel like ive bought a dog.
The aftermarket Mikunis that i had assumed were fake VM34's are, from what i can find, "mikuni 156-03" vm32's which i believe, are the carbs off of a T500 Titan 2 stroke... from 50 odd years ago, myeah explains why they look ancient. Barely runs with those on so I pulled them off and fitted what i assume, are the original Vacuum carbs that came with the bike and must also be around the same size since they fit on the same rubber manifolds as the VM32's. It idles and responds well with those vacuum carbs but i can not get it to rev out. It still refuses to rev past 4-5k rpm even if you hold it flat. With this Wassel system being not intended for this bike ive no clue if the timing is right since i have no useful timing marks but myself and my old man who has been working on bikes for longer than ive been alive, are both in agreement that its *probably* carbs.
Ive pulled these vacuum carbs apart and blown through every jet and checked the vacuum diaphragm and still the same but the fact the bike will sort of rev and push through the rpm "limit" if you back off the throttle and open again and again makes me think it wouldn't be timing especially since it starts so easily, infact another reason i suspect carbs is because it starts too easily, hear me out, i have never once had to use the choke in fact the bike dies or wont start if i use the choke when cold and it constantly blackens plugs even with the airbox off (tried with and without) which to me says these carbs are pig rich despite the bike having bigger headers on it, ive no idea what the internal diameter is buy the OD is circa 45mm which to my understanding is pretty big for an XS.
So really what im asking is, before i spend $800 (Aud) on a set of new VM34's setup from an XS from MikuniOz, is there anyone here with any thoughts on this not being the carbs at fault?

Cheers guys
 
Hey everyone back again.

If you don't know im the guy that bought an 81 Herritage import thats had (for some reason) Wassel electronic Ignition fitted (meant for a Triumph/BSA) anyway i fixed the issue that had me here last time which was backfiring due to the wrong coil however the more i look into this bike the more i feel like ive bought a dog.
The aftermarket Mikunis that i had assumed were fake VM34's are, from what i can find, "mikuni 156-03" vm32's which i believe, are the carbs off of a T500 Titan 2 stroke... from 50 odd years ago, myeah explains why they look ancient. Barely runs with those on so I pulled them off and fitted what i assume, are the original Vacuum carbs that came with the bike and must also be around the same size since they fit on the same rubber manifolds as the VM32's. It idles and responds well with those vacuum carbs but i can not get it to rev out. It still refuses to rev past 4-5k rpm even if you hold it flat. With this Wassel system being not intended for this bike ive no clue if the timing is right since i have no useful timing marks but myself and my old man who has been working on bikes for longer than ive been alive, are both in agreement that its *probably* carbs.
Ive pulled these vacuum carbs apart and blown through every jet and checked the vacuum diaphragm and still the same but the fact the bike will sort of rev and push through the rpm "limit" if you back off the throttle and open again and again makes me think it wouldn't be timing especially since it starts so easily, infact another reason i suspect carbs is because it starts too easily, hear me out, i have never once had to use the choke in fact the bike dies or wont start if i use the choke when cold and it constantly blackens plugs even with the airbox off (tried with and without) which to me says these carbs are pig rich despite the bike having bigger headers on it, ive no idea what the internal diameter is buy the OD is circa 45mm which to my understanding is pretty big for an XS.
So really what im asking is, before i spend $800 (Aud) on a set of new VM34's setup from an XS from MikuniOz, is there anyone here with any thoughts on this not being the carbs at fault?

Cheers guys

Give us some pics of the carbs so we can ID 'em? It's possible the PO put some huge main jets in there. Drop a bowl and let us know what size they are?
 
Give us some pics of the carbs so we can ID 'em? It's possible the PO put some huge main jets in there. Drop a bowl and let us know what size they are?
If you mean the vacuum carbs do can probably do that. Ill have to drop em off the bike first so give me a while because they're a nuisance 😆.
The carbs i took off (vm32) i can tell you had a 180 and a 30 in it with a 2.5 slide and those carbs looked to be way too rich as well going by the plugs i pulled out.
 
Give us some pics of the carbs so we can ID 'em? It's possible the PO put some huge main jets in there. Drop a bowl and let us know what size they are?
20240114_162804.jpg

so from what im able to remove:

Internal jets (in the bowl): 132.5 and 42.5.
Throat jet which i assume is just an air jet (where the air cleaner mounts) 135.
Butterfly is stamped with: 135.
And The slides don't appear to have any markings on the bottom except for the letter: A.
The floats are plastic and the only markings on the body are the words:
MIC
Mikuni
KOGYO
 

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Were there rubber plugs over the pilot jets? The tower just next to the mains?
no i didn't notice any rubber in there at all. Only rubber i was aware of in them was the rubber diaphragm up top. Oh and i measured the carbs, they have an ID of 34mm so they are bigger than the VM32 i took off despite having the same (or similar) OD it seems.
 
34mm is the right carb for that model of bike. Whilst you have the float bowls opened up, I would definitely check the float height is correct because that, if set incorrectly, will influence mixture.
 
34mm is the right carb for that model of bike. Whilst you have the float bowls opened up, I would definitely check the float height is correct because that, if set incorrectly, will influence mixture.
One was definitely flooding (under fuel pressure) if the bike wasn't running so i just matched it to the other carb since i couldn't find any decent source on what height this exact float type 34 and it hasn't leaked since but yes that is a possibility
 
Really? That seems weird i thought that would just stop that jet from doing anything at all honestly.
There's a passage between the pilot and main towers. Fuel is "supposed" to flow through the main jet, into the pilot tower and up into the pilot jet. Without the plug, fuel is getting sucked up in the pilot tower, bypassing the main jet and causing rich running. Those plugs will more than likely solve most of your issues.


1705257334146.png


1705257359287.png
 
One was definitely flooding (under fuel pressure) if the bike wasn't running so i just matched it to the other carb since i couldn't find any decent source on what height this exact float type 34 and it hasn't leaked since but yes that is a possibility


This carb guide was written by two forum members, @5twins and @grizld1 (RIP dick). It's pretty much our bible for the BS 34 and 38 carbs.
It has all the info you need. Including "suggest" jetting for your modified exhaust.
 

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The setting for your plastic floats is 22mm ± 1mm, and that gets measured from the lower, rounded part of the float "bulb", not the higher flat part where the pivot bracket attaches. This pic from a Suzuki carb manual (very similar carbs) nicely illustrates how and where to measure them from .....

SuzukiPlasticFloatSetting.jpg


And you'll want to check both sides (each float "bulb") because the float is often twisted on it's mount. That makes one side sit higher or lower than the other.

The jetting you found is the stock U.S. spec. The rest of the world got a 130 main and 130 air jet, along with a richer adjustable needle and needle jet. The U.S. set-up is quite lean and even a totally stock machine will benefit from upping the mains one size. And to add some color to the plugs, you can reduce the air jet a size or two.
 
There's a passage between the pilot and main towers. Fuel is "supposed" to flow through the main jet, into the pilot tower and up into the pilot jet. Without the plug, fuel is getting sucked up in the pilot tower, bypassing the main jet and causing rich running. Those plugs will more than likely solve most of your issues.


View attachment 259683

View attachment 259684
Yeah i found that out when i done some researching last night and it now makes much more sense. Its definitely something thats both really easy to miss if you don't know its meant to be there and something thays vitally important.
 
This carb guide was written by two forum members, @5twins and @grizld1 (RIP dick). It's pretty much our bible for the BS 34 and 38 carbs.
It has all the info you need. Including "suggest" jetting for your modified exhaust.
Legend thanks very much mate i'll check it out. Its probably in that guide but i figured id ask anyway, is there a specific type of Mikuni jet these BS carbs take? Im struggling to find genuine jets online for it
 
Luckily, these carbs use very common and readily available Mikuni jet types. The mains and pilots .....

N100.604.jpg


Mikuni-Pilot-BS30-96.jpg


And for the air jet, a different type of main is used but in this case, it flows air instead of fuel .....

N102.221.jpg


So, as I mentioned, the U.S. spec carbs are very lean. I wouldn't even bother getting the stock main or air jet. Instead I'd get one size larger main (135) and 2 sizes of air jets (130 & 132.5). If you plan on more mods like pod filters then you're going to need one size larger pilots (#45) and another size larger on the mains (137.5).
 
Luckily, these carbs use very common and readily available Mikuni jet types. The mains and pilots .....

View attachment 259700

View attachment 259701

And for the air jet, a different type of main is used but in this case, it flows air instead of fuel .....

View attachment 259705

So, as I mentioned, the U.S. spec carbs are very lean. I wouldn't even bother getting the stock main or air jet. Instead I'd get one size larger main (135) and 2 sizes of air jets (130 & 132.5). If you plan on more mods like pod filters then you're going to need one size larger pilots (#45) and another size larger on the mains (137.5).
Cheers much appreciated i will take note of all of that, gotta do some shopping now i suppose aha.

Im leaning towards the bigger jets you mentioned since i do have those bigger open headers and so id lukely have to swap to some unifoam filters as well
 
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There's a passage between the pilot and main towers. Fuel is "supposed" to flow through the main jet, into the pilot tower and up into the pilot jet. Without the plug, fuel is getting sucked up in the pilot tower, bypassing the main jet and causing rich running. Those plugs will more than likely solve most of your issues.


View attachment 259683

View attachment 259684
Survey says you were right, got the plugs in and its running way better now and will actually do 100kph. Currently waiting on some richer jets from Mikuni to replace the lean American jets as recommended. Hopefully the new jets and float adjustment is the end of the Carb saga as this new found speed has shown another scarier issue, steering wobble at 100 🥲.

Thanks again for your help!
 
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