gentlemanjim
More Wrenchin than Ridin
How and where can the bottom spin on be purchased in the US?
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oil filter
- Thread starter inxs
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- engine oil oil filter
Here is a design by Dave Bath using the sump plate as a means of mounting a spin off filter. From the XS650 club Australia sitehttp://www.xs650.org.au/tech4.html
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curt698
XS650 Addict
I am getting a quote for a five part run of this design. I have an old room-mate with a CNC machine
.Dave
bloodhound
XS650 Addict
If anyone is interested, I have a guy who will plug holes and weld bungs for a remote oil filter.
islanddave
XS650 New Member
I have had the 650 central oil filter mod on my bike for 3 years and would highly recomend it!
I might mention in passing (per my discusson with a Wix Engineer) that paper filters create a 15-20 percent reduction or restriction in the flow of oil as measured by Wix with 30 weight oil......
And when it comes to the bypass built into the filters.....if it says 12 lbs that means the differential in pressure from one side of the filter to the other......not just 12 lbs......
xsjohn
And when it comes to the bypass built into the filters.....if it says 12 lbs that means the differential in pressure from one side of the filter to the other......not just 12 lbs......
xsjohn
hein weijers
XS650 Special (5E6) 1982
Today I joined this XS forum and to my surprise I saw that my oilfilter is mentioned on this forum. 
I have improved the filter a bit. The latest version has a support on both sides.
Hein
I have improved the filter a bit. The latest version has a support on both sides.
Hein
pamcopete
Ride.Enjoy.Life is Simple
Well, some nice work here. Very creative.
However, bypassing the filter due to high pressure, as on the stock screen and many of these innovations, is unhealthy. The stock bypass opens at 14psi. Some of the paper filters cartridges open as low as 6 or 7 psi. The oil pressure will always hit 14psi upon starting a cold engine and even when running hot, the pressure will still be 6 or 7 psi at 4,000 RPM. Adjusting the stock bypass pressure is an unknown procedure, so it's possible that your bypass "valve" opens at a lower pressure.
If there is an accumulation of junk in the filter, that will cause the bypass to open as well, so just when you really need the filter to protect the engine, the bypass opens to let the junk into the innards of the engine.
Also, when the bypass opens on a cold engine with thick oil in the crankcase, it actually increases the suction applied to the sump screen which is the main cause of holes in the sump screen.
I never liked the bypass arrangement on the stock engines, so I removed the by pass spring and ball and replaced the stud holding them in with another threaded stud with no hole in it.
Then I installed an oil pressure gage so I could manage the oil pressure when starting up in the cold and I would be able to see a blockage developing before it got to the critical stage. The gage also helps me determine when it is time to change the oil, because the pressure gets low compared to the pressure with fresh oil. The oil pressure gage also help me interpolate the engine temperature.
Just drill and tap the side cover for the filter, or drill and tap one of the oil galley holes in the front of the wet side cover.
However, bypassing the filter due to high pressure, as on the stock screen and many of these innovations, is unhealthy. The stock bypass opens at 14psi. Some of the paper filters cartridges open as low as 6 or 7 psi. The oil pressure will always hit 14psi upon starting a cold engine and even when running hot, the pressure will still be 6 or 7 psi at 4,000 RPM. Adjusting the stock bypass pressure is an unknown procedure, so it's possible that your bypass "valve" opens at a lower pressure.
If there is an accumulation of junk in the filter, that will cause the bypass to open as well, so just when you really need the filter to protect the engine, the bypass opens to let the junk into the innards of the engine.
Also, when the bypass opens on a cold engine with thick oil in the crankcase, it actually increases the suction applied to the sump screen which is the main cause of holes in the sump screen.
I never liked the bypass arrangement on the stock engines, so I removed the by pass spring and ball and replaced the stud holding them in with another threaded stud with no hole in it.
Then I installed an oil pressure gage so I could manage the oil pressure when starting up in the cold and I would be able to see a blockage developing before it got to the critical stage. The gage also helps me determine when it is time to change the oil, because the pressure gets low compared to the pressure with fresh oil. The oil pressure gage also help me interpolate the engine temperature.
Just drill and tap the side cover for the filter, or drill and tap one of the oil galley holes in the front of the wet side cover.
hein weijers
XS650 Special (5E6) 1982
Hi, Pamcopete and others,
The filter is a replacement for the sumpfilter and is on the suction side of the oilpump. I measured the pressure drop in the suctionline between sumpfilter and oilpump and measured less than 0.1 bar (1.5 psi) with cold 20W50 oil at 3000 revs. I also measured that the oilpump can draw an underpressure of more than 0.9 bar (13.5 psi) So with the savety valve set on 0.5 bar (7.5 psi) I am always on the save side! With a normal oilchange this valve will never have to open.
The little filter in the sidecover is on the pressure side of the pump.
The savety valve is set on 1 bar (14 psi) pressure drop over the filtercartridge and has nothing to do with the pressure in the oil lines in the engine. Even when the measured pressure is 20 psi, the pressure drop over the filter can be much less than 5 psi and the savety valve keeps closed. You are mixing two types of pressure: the absolute pressure, made by the oilpump and the pressure drop over the filter, coused bij the restriction of the oilfilter. Removing the savety valve is done on wrong assumptions!!!!
Kind regards, Hein
The filter is a replacement for the sumpfilter and is on the suction side of the oilpump. I measured the pressure drop in the suctionline between sumpfilter and oilpump and measured less than 0.1 bar (1.5 psi) with cold 20W50 oil at 3000 revs. I also measured that the oilpump can draw an underpressure of more than 0.9 bar (13.5 psi) So with the savety valve set on 0.5 bar (7.5 psi) I am always on the save side! With a normal oilchange this valve will never have to open.
The little filter in the sidecover is on the pressure side of the pump.
The savety valve is set on 1 bar (14 psi) pressure drop over the filtercartridge and has nothing to do with the pressure in the oil lines in the engine. Even when the measured pressure is 20 psi, the pressure drop over the filter can be much less than 5 psi and the savety valve keeps closed. You are mixing two types of pressure: the absolute pressure, made by the oilpump and the pressure drop over the filter, coused bij the restriction of the oilfilter. Removing the savety valve is done on wrong assumptions!!!!
Kind regards, Hein
pamcopete
Ride.Enjoy.Life is Simple
hein,
I realize that the by pass vale operates on differential pressure. To say that the bypass valve operation has nothing to do with the absolute pressure is an oversimplification. Obviously, it will not open if the absolute pressure is less than 14 PSI, but you could have a condition where the absolute pressure is greater than or equal to, say 15 psi and the absolute pressure on the engine side of the bypass valve is zero, resulting in a differential pressure of 15 PSI, opening the bypass. (of course the engine side absolute pressure would then be 1 PSI). This would be the condition if the filter were completely plugged and the oil pump was not able to produce more than 14 or 15 PSI due to the same junk having accumulated either in the pump itself or the sump screen. You would have a condition of both absolute pressure of 15 psi and differential pressure of 14 PSI.
It's also possible under the same scenario for the absolute pressure from the oil pump to go as high as 20 PSI and with a clogged filter, you could have up to say 5 psi on the engine side, resulting in a pressure differential of 15 PSI which would open the bypass and let the junk flow into the engine.
In both of these examples, having an oil pressure gage would show that the absolute oil pressure is at or above 14 PSI and that the bypass valve could be open because you would never see readings that high on a hot engine unless the screen was plugged.
So, in the interests of erring on the safe side, I use the absolute pressure as a determining factor in my thinking that I do not want the bypass valve to open at all so I got rid of it. If I saw a reading of 14 to 20 psi (absolute) on a hot engine, I would know that the filter is clogged and it's time to shut down the engine. With the by pass installed, I might not see the higher pressure because the open bypass valve would tend to keep the meter reading low.
You should have raised your thinking one more level.
I realize that the by pass vale operates on differential pressure. To say that the bypass valve operation has nothing to do with the absolute pressure is an oversimplification. Obviously, it will not open if the absolute pressure is less than 14 PSI, but you could have a condition where the absolute pressure is greater than or equal to, say 15 psi and the absolute pressure on the engine side of the bypass valve is zero, resulting in a differential pressure of 15 PSI, opening the bypass. (of course the engine side absolute pressure would then be 1 PSI). This would be the condition if the filter were completely plugged and the oil pump was not able to produce more than 14 or 15 PSI due to the same junk having accumulated either in the pump itself or the sump screen. You would have a condition of both absolute pressure of 15 psi and differential pressure of 14 PSI.
It's also possible under the same scenario for the absolute pressure from the oil pump to go as high as 20 PSI and with a clogged filter, you could have up to say 5 psi on the engine side, resulting in a pressure differential of 15 PSI which would open the bypass and let the junk flow into the engine.
In both of these examples, having an oil pressure gage would show that the absolute oil pressure is at or above 14 PSI and that the bypass valve could be open because you would never see readings that high on a hot engine unless the screen was plugged.
So, in the interests of erring on the safe side, I use the absolute pressure as a determining factor in my thinking that I do not want the bypass valve to open at all so I got rid of it. If I saw a reading of 14 to 20 psi (absolute) on a hot engine, I would know that the filter is clogged and it's time to shut down the engine. With the by pass installed, I might not see the higher pressure because the open bypass valve would tend to keep the meter reading low.
You should have raised your thinking one more level.
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hein weijers
XS650 Special (5E6) 1982
My best Pamcopete,
With a clogged filter and without a bypass valve, you don't need to shut down the engine. It will shut down by itself
Please do not promote these wrong idees on this forum. There is always a very tiny risk that someone will follow it up
The bypass valve belongs to the most basic savety devices of the lubrication system of an engine.
So far I am glad that I have not raised my thinking to your level
Kind regards, Hein
pamcopete
Ride.Enjoy.Life is Simple
hein,
Brilliant...why didn't I think of that? You need the by pass valve to allow all the junk that caused it to open in the first place to flow into the engine until the next oil change when you just happen to notice it. No point getting too excited before then.
The point you missed here is that I installed an oil pressure gage when I removed the by pass valve, allowing me to see the pressure build up as the filter clogs up. None of the junk gets into the engine because there is no by pass valve.
You say that the bypass valve is the most basic savety system of any oil lubrication system in an engine, but it's primary purpose is to regulate the oil pressure within the design limits of the oil pump and the filter with the engine operating normally. It is not intended to save the engine in the event of a catastrophic internal failure that causes excessive amounts of junk to clog up the filter. As you say, when that happens , the engine will stop on its own anyway.
You must be an engineer.....can't think out of the box....and get a spell checker...
Brilliant...why didn't I think of that? You need the by pass valve to allow all the junk that caused it to open in the first place to flow into the engine until the next oil change when you just happen to notice it. No point getting too excited before then.
The point you missed here is that I installed an oil pressure gage when I removed the by pass valve, allowing me to see the pressure build up as the filter clogs up. None of the junk gets into the engine because there is no by pass valve.
You say that the bypass valve is the most basic savety system of any oil lubrication system in an engine, but it's primary purpose is to regulate the oil pressure within the design limits of the oil pump and the filter with the engine operating normally. It is not intended to save the engine in the event of a catastrophic internal failure that causes excessive amounts of junk to clog up the filter. As you say, when that happens , the engine will stop on its own anyway.
You must be an engineer.....can't think out of the box....and get a spell checker...
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highspeedhamish
Too much power?
yamaman
xs650 addict
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Jeez Pete, maybe you need a pressure gauge before you blow a gasket yourself!
Telling one of our fine members (who by the way appears to have made a fine product for our bikes) to get a spell checker, when it would appear to us all that English is not his first language, is damned rude.
Welcome to the site Hein, please don't let the rudeness of some of our members put you off. This is generaly a friendly site, and your presence & creativity are most welcome here
Telling one of our fine members (who by the way appears to have made a fine product for our bikes) to get a spell checker, when it would appear to us all that English is not his first language, is damned rude.
Welcome to the site Hein, please don't let the rudeness of some of our members put you off. This is generaly a friendly site, and your presence & creativity are most welcome here
pamcopete
Ride.Enjoy.Life is Simple
yamaman,
Well, this is rude:
"Please do not promote these wrong ideas on this forum. There is always a very tiny risk that someone will follow it up"
So, rather than have a reasonable discussion, hein chose to be rude and condescending.
There is nothing wrong with his English, which is a lot better than my Dutch, so there is no need to go easy. hein needs to learn to be more civil.
My initial comment that he should have raised his thinking up another level was made advisedly. He is stuck with an idee fixe and can't get out of the rut.
And do me a favor, yamaman...don't bother apologizing for me in the future.
Well, this is rude:
"Please do not promote these wrong ideas on this forum. There is always a very tiny risk that someone will follow it up"
So, rather than have a reasonable discussion, hein chose to be rude and condescending.
There is nothing wrong with his English, which is a lot better than my Dutch, so there is no need to go easy. hein needs to learn to be more civil.
My initial comment that he should have raised his thinking up another level was made advisedly. He is stuck with an idee fixe and can't get out of the rut.
And do me a favor, yamaman...don't bother apologizing for me in the future.
yamaman
xs650 addict
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I certainly wasn't apologising on your behalf Pete, I was however apologising on behalf of the hundreds of members that would rather welcome Hein than berate him.
Of course you would be always seeking to improve yourself & not be stuck in a rut at all.
So the new crank triggered Pamco should be on the shelves soon?????
Of course you would be always seeking to improve yourself & not be stuck in a rut at all.
So the new crank triggered Pamco should be on the shelves soon?????
- seems to me that the real issue here is lack of rider understanding…oil systems are not finely tuned auto-regulating self-cleaning biologic operations, unlike blood, oil needs to be regularly replaced, this is simply part of normal mechanical maintenance…regular oil and filter changes are basic operations that will increase the longevity of your motor and allow you a diagnostic insight into the inner workings of your motor…and, quite frankly, these various filters are far more effective than the original sieves…technically there should be little need for either oil pressure gauges or safety valves if your level of maintenance is adequate – if its not its simply your own fault
- im quite happy to accept my stuck-in-the box safety valve along with regular oil and filter changes knowing that its highly unlikely that my filters will ever load up enough to need it and ride with the understanding that at lower temperatures i need to spend a little longer warming my motor before scaring the shit out of mothers
- i dont want yet another gauge cluttering up my handlebar area, nor do i wish to puncture my case in order to install a sensor that may or may not retain its calibration
- and as far as spell checks go, reading forums like these, its obvious to me that many native english speakers fare far worse at this in their own language, let alone being able to communicate in one or more others
- im quite happy to accept my stuck-in-the box safety valve along with regular oil and filter changes knowing that its highly unlikely that my filters will ever load up enough to need it and ride with the understanding that at lower temperatures i need to spend a little longer warming my motor before scaring the shit out of mothers
- i dont want yet another gauge cluttering up my handlebar area, nor do i wish to puncture my case in order to install a sensor that may or may not retain its calibration
- and as far as spell checks go, reading forums like these, its obvious to me that many native english speakers fare far worse at this in their own language, let alone being able to communicate in one or more others
hein weijers
XS650 Special (5E6) 1982
Hello Pamcopete,
This is just not right! Its primary purpose is not to regulate the oil pressure at any time!
And it is intended to save the engine, not after a catastrophic internal failure that causes exessive amounts of junk that clog up the filter, that's too late anyway, but in case of a clogged filter due to a too late oil change. We treat our XS classics as our babies now, but there were (an maybe still are) people who only check the oil level once a year.
And yes, I em u Dutch inganeer and I neet a spall shecker
Kind regards and let's be nice,
Hein
