Shift Drum Removal

[Bewarethemoon]

I’m down the bare bones of my crank case disassembly.

Having a little trouble getting the ‘pins’ out the shift forks, I’ve gotten two of three out but one is fighting me.

Anybody got and tips or advice?

Daniel.

 

[DogBunny]

Do you have the translated German manual by Hans J. Pahl? On page 80, he shows how to use a cotter pin to remove the pins. Here are the pics:
http://www.hjpahl.com/xs650motor_galerie/Kapitel_5_Demontage_des_Motors/slides/005_066.html
http://www.hjpahl.com/xs650motor_galerie/Kapitel_5_Demontage_des_Motors/slides/005_067.html
You insert a cotter pin, and spread it with a screwdriver so that it grabs the inside of the pin.

 

[Bewarethemoon]

That’s brilliant @DogBunny!

Is there anywhere I can a translated copy of the German manual, I’ve heard mention of it numerous times and the illustrations seem great! Would love to get printed out into a proper booklet.

Daniel.

 

[DogBunny]

https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-XS650-Engine-Including-Electrical/dp/1544270631

 

[kshansen]

https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-XS650-Engine-Including-Electrical/dp/1544270631

That link would not work for me but found it with this link:
https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-XS650-Engine-Including-Electric-ebook/dp/B071W5SSPY

 

[Bewarethemoon]

That manual is on it’s way!

Cheers for your help @DogBunny, took about 20 minutes or so but I got it out.
All I have left now in this case half is the housing for the shift shaft needle bearing.

Is it safe to heat and drive it out?

Daniel.

 

[Bewarethemoon]

Along with the needle bearing I also have only the starter post left and we’re done.

Any body got experience with these two?

Daniel.

 

[DogBunny]

It's been a while on the needle bearing, and I don't remember -- maybe someone else will chime in, or maybe you will need to start a new thread.

However, I do have a lot of experience with the starter post. It is hard, but doable. Do you really need to remove it? Why?
If you are sure it has to come out, here's how I do it:
Put the whole case half in your oven, and get it as hot as you can stand. I think 400 degrees F. should be safe, but don't blame if it that's too hot for the case. Then get a long, stout, drift pin, or punch, or screwdriver or something -- I repeat, long and stout -- and hammer the post out from the back side. You will not be able to get a straight shot at it. You will be attacking it at a bit of an angle. But if you are lucky, it will hammer out. If you are unlucky, it won't hammer out. I think I have tried to remove the posts from four different cases. Two came out, two didn't.

 

[Signal]

I have done both.
needle bearing pushes into the case, take note before you remove it it does not sit flush on the inside or the outside of the case. on the inside it sits approximatly 3mm proud of the housing. Heating with a heat gun helps.
The starter post is easy. You dont need any violence at all. Remove retaining screw. Place case in barbeque propped up so the post can fall down free of the cases. turn on all the burners close the lid and wait. it just falls out when the cases are hot enough.
To replace, cool post in freezer, make a guide to screw in the case in the 6mm post securing screw hole. This aligns it when you re install. Heat case in barbeque the post needs very little pressure to install with the cooling and heating .
Before you blast put old bolts, screws in the case threads. The abrasive is the best thread locker ever!. Also remove the front oil gallery cap in the top case and clean it out. even though you try to block it stuff still gets in. I am always stunned at the gunk that comes out.
Check out Smead Speed ,and Gary Hoos for further details.

 

[Bewarethemoon]

I have done both.
needle bearing pushes into the case, take note before you remove it it does not sit flush on the inside or the outside of the case. on the inside it sits approximatly 3mm proud of the housing. Heating with a heat gun helps.
The starter post is easy. You dont need any violence at all. Place case in barbeque propped up so the post can fall down free of the cases. turn on all the burners close the lid and wait. it just falls out when the cases are hot enough.
To replace, cool post in freezer, make a guide to screw in the case in the 6mm post securing screw hole. This aligns it when you re install. Heat case in barbeque the post needs very little pressure to install with the cooling and heating .
Before you blast put old bolts, screws in the case threads. The abrasive is the best thread locker ever!. Also remove the front oil gallery cap in the top case and clean it out. even though you try to block it stuff still gets in. I am always stunned at the gunk that comes out.
Check out Smead Speed ,and Gary Hoos for further details.

Did you press the needle bearing out or drive it out with a punch?

I don’t have a gas BBQ and I think my girlfriend wouldn’t be too happy with the casing in the oven, reckon a MAPP gas torch would do it @Signal

Thanks for the advice on trying to keep media out, I’ve read back through Gary Hoos’s post on his Facebook page and gotten some great ideas to try and seal things up.

Daniel.

 

[Signal]

I used a press on the bearing you have more control. I am not a fan of using hammers I have wrecked too much stuff.
I also regard the press as the most dangerous tool in the workshop. Wrecked a lot of stuff with that too.
Well you could try a mapp torch but I dont think it will do. The case needs to get pretty hot and the torch has a localised effect.
Get the case to the right temp and the post falls out. You risk damaging the case trying to beat it out.
Do you have a mate with a barbeque, I am considering buying an old electric range for heating bearings cases etc so maybe you can get hold of one .

 

[Bewarethemoon]

I used a press on the bearing you have more control. I am not a fan of using hammers I have wrecked too much stuff.
I also regard the press as the most dangerous tool in the workshop. Wrecked a lot of stuff with that too.
Well you could try a mapp torch but I dont think it will do. The case needs to get pretty hot and the torch has a localised effect.
Get the case to the right temp and the post falls out. You risk damaging the case trying to beat it out.
Do you have a mate with a barbeque, I am considering buying an old electric range for heating bearings cases etc so maybe you can get hold of one .

I think I can get access to a press.

My boss has a gas BBQ, I’m sure he’ll let me use that!

Daniel.

 

[kshansen]

My boss has a gas BBQ, I’m sure he’ll let me use that!

Tell him you are going to cook up some chicken or steaks and invite him over. Just get the engine work done be fore he shows up!

 

[Bewarethemoon]

My boss has a gas BBQ, I’m sure he’ll let me use that!

Tell him you are going to cook up some chicken or steaks and invite him over. Just get the engine work done be fore he shows up!

I’m a vegetarian!

I reckon if I clean it real well he might go for it?

 

[Bewarethemoon]

@Signal

Last year I bought a small electric oven (the size of a microwave), I got it for working on cylinder heads.

With all of the casing studs removed it just fit the bottom crank case. Tonight I warmed up to 200 degrees centigrade for 30 minutes or so and then with a short, swift tap with a drift and hammer the starter post came straight out!

That’s it nothing left to remove on my casings!

I have another quick question regarding the starter post, is it’s only use to mount the starter reduction gears?

If I wanted to could I machine a ‘blanking plug’ for that hole if I had no intention of using an electric starter in this engine?

Daniel.

 

[DogBunny]

If you leave it out, you make things very difficult for someone who comes along behind you and who wants to get the e-start working again. But, yes, otherwise you can leave it out. And there is absolutely no reason to make or install a plug if you do leave it out.

 

[Bewarethemoon]

If you leave it out, you make things very difficult for someone who comes along behind you and who wants to get the e-start working again. But, yes, otherwise you can leave it out. And there is absolutely no reason to make or install a plug if you do leave it out.

Thanks for the reply @DogBunny

I appreciate what you’re saying about making things difficult for anybody who comes after me but with the lengths I’m going to with this engine I’ll be buried with it like a Viking.

Daniel.

 

[Signal]

I built my tracker without electric start. 9:1 compressson and rephased. I used to kick start bikes no trouble but I have gotten older. I have now re installed the electric starter and working my way through mounting a battery to power the starter. Viking or not my advice is put the post back, the weight saving is small compared to the job of retro fitting it.
I made a rough little locator pin to aline the securing screw with the post cutout.
To reinstall the post put it in the freezer, heat the cases it goes in easy.