small battery

figure8 said:
Seeking a smaller battery but all the links in this thread are no longer working. Can anyone verify if this works..[/url]
Click to expand...

On a kick-only, PMA, Pamco, headlight-off will probably be fine.

Your profile shows you have a stock-system '81. Lotsa current draw when you turn on the switch, so probably not recommended...
 
I should have specified. I am gonna run kick only with head/taillight only. Headlight will be off when started.
 
^Anybody? I reread and to my understanding you can run a tci as long as you run kick only with headlight off when started.
 
Hi, I'm new here.


I've been looking at these Shorai batteries. I'm working on my first bobber build. It's a 78 with points etc. I'd like to keep my electric start (for that just in case reason....)

The issue I'm having is, I've modified the frame to a brat style, which of course leaves very little room.

A lithium battery seems like a good option, but I don't have any experience with them.
http://shoraipower.com/products?action=vehicle&type=175&make=2036&model=8462&year=7292

I'm curious if anyone has or currently using one of these? And if so, which one do you suggest. They're kind of expensive so I'd like to buy the right one the first time.

Also if there are any suggestions for other products I'm open to it! I'd prefer not to go PEMA and all that for now, because I was lucky and found a donor bike where everything works perfectly. Down the road if there are issues, I'll likely switch to some other system.

Thanks

I've been reading these forums for a long time and finally picked up a project bike. Get ready for all my stupid newbie questions.........:doh:
 
Same thing. The expensive one looks like a fluke.

I run this. Still small, and quite forgiving when the bike takes a bit longer to start or you take too long to figure out a fuse has broken (don't ask...).
 
The reviewer for that Schumacher 12v 1.3 Ah battery wrote this showing the dimension:

As of the writing of this review, the Amazon technical details say: 7.4 x 5.8 x 3.4 inches.
However, my measurements are: 3.8 x 1.7 x 2.0 inches (L x W x H) based on what I received.
It is indeed the same part number as shown. It will still work for my application, so I'm going with it, but it would have been helpful if the dimensions were accurate. I can't comment on performance yet as I have just received it.
 
Yes you are right, I forgot to mention that. When I ordered I didn't even notice that because I went with the manufacturer datasheet. Bottom line is it's a small battery, very light too and inexpensive, can be easily concealed.

What's the advantage of running 2 * 6v batteries?
 
Maurice said:
...What's the advantage of running 2 * 6v batteries?
Click to expand...

No real advantage. I get 4.5 Amp-hours, attached together they come close to the size of the original 5.5 Amp-hour battery, so they fit the battery box with a little foam packing. Also, they're really cheap, abundant, and the only things I could find out here in remote-land...
 
Question about the small battery:

Sometimes I get caught in some shitty traffic....not rush hour in LA, but pretty shitty start stop BS, plus lights at intersections, so sometimes I get caught where Im just walking in first a few feet at a time. I do have a voltage monitor and can tell when shes charging,......BUT....... how long will this little battery last in traffic like that.???
 
TwoManyXS1Bs said:
No real advantage. I get 4.5 Amp-hours, attached together they come close to the size of the original 5.5 Amp-hour battery, so they fit the battery box with a little foam packing. Also, they're really cheap, abundant, and the only things I could find out here in remote-land...
Click to expand...

Maybe this sort of answers my question.........some...
 
EvenmoreXS said:
Question about the small battery:

Sometimes I get caught in some shitty traffic....not rush hour in LA, but pretty shitty start stop BS, plus lights at intersections, so sometimes I get caught where Im just walking in first a few feet at a time. I do have a voltage monitor and can tell when shes charging,......BUT....... how long will this little battery last in traffic like that.???
Click to expand...

That's a good question... Then there's heat...

Things you can do to offset that:
- the battery is so small you could possibly carry a spare just in case
- turn off the headlight when stopped, it makes a significant difference

I have a VR115 (I think?) and stock rectifier on my '78, and at idle (EX500 carbs let me idle at about 1k RPM very reliably), if turn signals are off it hovers around 12v, bit more I forget. Turn the headlight off and it actually seems to break even at idle. As soon as you rev it, it shoots up past 13 (1.5 to 2k RPM) to 14.5 where it usually sits when riding.

I don't ride in crappy traffic, thankfully, but I wouldn't be worried with this setup.

And they need to make filtering and lane splitting legal. I learned to ride in Europe, rode for a few years there, and the situation here is moronic. Let's just say old habits die hard ;)
 
"And they need to make filtering and lane splitting legal. I learned to ride in Europe, rode for a few years there, and the situation here is moronic. Let's just say old habits die hard "


I really want to agree with you,,....and I do for a lot of GOOD reasons,.....but truthfully, people here are such shitty drivers that I dont think it would help. In the states, we have been bread now to be compulsive multitaskers, and doing it in the car is very efficient.....Its very common for me to pull up to a light beside a nice young lady who is eating a biscuit, doing her makeup AND texting on her phone. I will sit and watch as she rolls forward throught the intersection with her face in the rearview mirror putting on lipstick while driving with her leg....I just watch....It pays to be attentive to whats going on around you when riding. I wont spend much time in front of her. People have become oblivious while in their cars...Here anyway. Driving is a second thought.......

Do cars in Europe even have cupholders???? besides the nice merc's and bmw's...

Some of our cars come with DVD players and coolers.......Beer and a movie on the way to the game???? Only in America...
 
Let's not derail the thread... Yeah, cupholders was one of those WTF things... Also: taking the trash out with the car (50 yards, hanging out the window by the handle...), picking the mail with the car (tried doing it once my wife was furious :) ), dropping kids off at bottom of driveway, etc.
 
EvenmoreXS said:
Question about the small battery:

Sometimes I get caught in some shitty traffic....not rush hour in LA, but pretty shitty start stop BS, plus lights at intersections, so sometimes I get caught where Im just walking in first a few feet at a time. I do have a voltage monitor and can tell when shes charging,......BUT....... how long will this little battery last in traffic like that.???
Click to expand...

Really good question. Been pondering this for years, might as well get into it.
*Warning* - A little math is involved, and I'm still tryin' to wake up.

Going to use some rough numbers here (for convenience), and some general purpose assumptions, based largely on my starterless XS1B, which should closely match the 70-79 systems, dissentions encouraged.

Viable, working/usable energy of a battery will be voltage times Amp-hour rating, yielding Watt-hours.

A 12v 1.3 Ah battery would have about 15 Watt-hours of usable energy.
A 12v 4.5 Ah battery would have about 55 Watt-hours of usable energy.
A 12v 5.5 Ah battery would have about 65 Watt-hours of usable energy.
A 12v 12 Ah battery would have about 145 Watt-hours of usable energy.

Think of it as an electron 'gas tank'.

Now, the loads, for a stock charging system, points ignition, NOT running.

The 5.5 ohm rotor will be constantly 'on', pulling 2.2 amps, a 26 watt demand.
The mechanical regulator has an internal Vref circuit (25 ohm resistor and 12 ohm solenoid) of 37 ohms, pulling 1/3 amp, a 4 Watt demand.
The ignition, with dual 5 ohm coils, each coil can pull 2.4 amps, a 30 watt demand for each.
However, the coils are energized separately, and for 90° dwell (1/4 revolution of points cam, 1/2 crank revolution)
If one of the points is closed (a 50/50 chance), one of the coils will be drawing, a 30 Watt demand.
If both points are open, there will be no demand.
The neutral lamp will have a 3 Watt demand
If the headlight is on, and at 'low' beam, its demand is 40 Watts, plus taillight is 8 Watts, plus 6 watts for instrument bulbs, total of 54 watts.

So,
26 Watts rotor
4 Watts regulator
30 Watts coil (50/50 chance)
3 Watts neutral lamp
Gives:
33 Watts total (open point)
63 Watts total (closed point)

With headlight on:
40 Watts low beam
8 Watts taillight
6 Watts instruments
Gives:
87 Watts total (open point)
117 Watts total (closed point)

So, just turning on the key, you can have initial demands of 33, 63, 87, 117 Watts, depending on situation.
The battery will supply that power for a limited time, based on capacity divided by demand, yielding hours.

A 15 Watt-hour (Wh) battery will supply 33 watts for 15/33 hours, about 27 minutes. Worst case 117 watts for 15/117 hours, about 8 minutes.

So, calculate switched-on 'engine not running' battery exhaustion time (in minutes) for 33, 63, 87, 117 demand watts:

12v, 1.3 Ah, 15 Wh battery: 27, 14, 10, 8 minutes
12v, 4.5 Ah, 55 Wh battery: 100, 52, 37, 28 minutes
12v, 5.5 Ah, 65 Wh battery: 118, 62, 45, 33 minutes
12v, 12 Ah, 145 Wh battery: 264, 138, 100, 74 minutes

Now, with the engine running, the ignition system will be running at 50% duty-cycle (point closed for 180° crank rotation), so its draw will be about 15 Watts.
While running and/or riding, you can expect demands of 45-48 watts (headlight off), 99-102 watts (headlight on).

If the charging system has failed due to bad rectifier, but rotor is still drawing power, you can roughly expect these run times (headlight off, headlight on):

12v, 1.3 Ah, 15 Wh battery: 20, 10 minutes
12v, 4.5 Ah, 55 Wh battery: 70, 33 minutes
12v, 5.5 Ah, 65 Wh battery: 80, 38 minutes
12v, 12 Ah, 145 Wh battery: 180, 85 minutes

If the charging system has failed due to bad (open) rotor, you can remove 26 watts from the loading, and expect longer battery run times.
In fact, if you have a charging system failure, you can disconnect the regulator to eliminate the 30 watt demand of that system, and extend your crippled 'get home' time.

Then, with the regulator unplugged, you can roughly expect these 'crippled' run times (headlight off, headlight on):

12v, 1.3 Ah, 15 Wh battery: 60, 13 minutes
12v, 4.5 Ah, 55 Wh battery: 220, 47 minutes
12v, 5.5 Ah, 65 Wh battery: 260, 56 minutes
12v, 12 Ah, 145 Wh battery: 580, 127 minutes

Now, the issue of idling and plodding thru stalled/congested traffic.

I've found that if the battery voltage is near 12.6v, very little, if any, current is traveling to/from the battery. It's essentially at a break-even point, the charging system is handling the power draws. On my XS1B, headlight off, neutral light on, idling at 1200 rpm, the battery voltage is at 12.6v, and the system is barely in equlibrium, the charging system is supplying the 45-48 watts power.

However, in congested traffic, at idle speed, using the brakes with the 27 watt brakelight, the turn signals, and worse, the headlight, the system is in depletion mode.
So, in a typical scenario of headlight 'on' and holding the brake, expect extra draws of:
Headlight 40 watts, taillight 8 watts, instruments 6 watts, brakelight 27 watts. Total of 81 watts.

How much battery life in this scenario?

12v, 1.3 Ah, 15 Wh battery: 11 minutes
12v, 4.5 Ah, 55 Wh battery: 41 minutes
12v, 5.5 Ah, 65 Wh battery: 48 minutes
12v, 12 Ah, 145 Wh battery: 107 minutes

I hope that this exercise gives you a working knowledge of electrical capacities, demands, and depletion times. All this is different with modified systems, like Permanent Magnet Alternators, electronic ignitions, LED illumination, smartphone charger, CB radio, electric shaver, and such.

Ever notice that the simplest questions often have complicated answers?
 
That's an interesting way of lookin at things, makes me wonder if thats why my battery didnt fry my pamco, my battery just died, left it in all night.
But it fired right up the next day when i hooked it to my kaw.

I have one of those cigarette pack batteries tried charging it still not getting much, think i may order that ub1234 at 3.4ah and just a tad bigger it may run the lights brighter.
 
wrmdovr said:
1980 engine, PMA, PAMCO with headlight and taillight only. headlight is wired on. I would like to ditch my battery and looking through this thread i see where the triple iii is used with success. in seaching for this i could not find anything but found this from Duracell and would like to get feedback before purchasing and installing. thanks.....
https://www.batteriesplus.com/battery/sla-sealed-lead-acid/duracell-ultra/12/slaa12=0.8wl
Click to expand...

anything with those specs is gonna work, look at the date of the last post you woke me up for this???
 

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