starter button, generic momentary switch

[emzdogz]

Was wondering, what's to stop someone with an XS with abbreviated wiring, from using this sort of switch in order to go ahead and use the elec. starter.

Description says it can be used without a relay.
http://www.debrix.com/Standard-Push-Button-Starter-Switch-Harley-p/15012-m1.htm
thanks....

trying to figure out how I could work it with this diagram, which provides for no connection to starter, without using the starter relay.

 

[emzdogz]

wow I was gonna delete this thread...but I guess we can't delete?

 

[gggGary]

no but if you go advanced you can change title to something useless like double post as an example see my recent botch up in the classy's a bare wire to a ground will work fine as a starter button.

 

[member3480]

Stock bike or chop???
I buy one like that and use it on Chops when they only want toggle for on/off

 

[emzdogz]

Stock bike or chop???
I buy one like that and use it on Chops when they only want toggle for on/off

Chop. Am using the stock key switch. But was hoping not to have to run a wire back off that key switch to engage the starter (plus that starter solenoid is an ugly thing to have showing), but then I realized....doh - no key = easy steal.

Was hoping to put a button somehow simply between battery and starter motor...but then it wouldn't be "keyed"....

 

[pamcopete]

emzdogs,

Well, if you used that direct connection switch you could turn the engine over, but it wouldn't start without the ignition key on. Besides, bikes are stolen by two guys with a pickup truck or van and a ramp.

 

[emzdogz]

emzdogs,

Well, if you used that direct connection switch you could turn the engine over, but it wouldn't start without the ignition key on. Besides, bikes are stolen by two guys with a pickup truck or van and a ramp.

Thanks Pete! for helping me "think". Yes I see that now. yay!
so in other words it would crank and crank, but not catch and actually "run".

And you're right about the truck thing. 2 guys will be able to pick this bike up really easy.
Curious how much it will weigh, actually.
Somewhere between 300 and 400 I guess.

 

[member3480]

Pete
You would be amazed about how many i do with no key. Its 50/50 with guys here most don't want key just a hidden kill switch and i know guys that have been riding for years that way. I put keys on my stuff.

 

[emzdogz]

So I'm gonna go ahead and connect this switch, as mentioned, between battery and starter, with no solenoid. Am just going to attach an extra ring connector to + battery terminal.

I have 2 questions.... (see pic attached) does the momentary switch have to be mounted to frame or bracket to use it? or just for now can I just let it dangle to try it? Can I hold it in my hand while pushing button, or will I get shocked? there's no place to really attach a ground wire to the switch. If I DO go ahead and mount it up in a hole in a metal bracket and use the metal retaining rings that came with it - maybe that would ground it to the frame. Not sure. I guess my thinking is that it needs no ground, and that the switch when pushed just provides a direct path from batt to starter motor.

Also, should I run an inline fuse? (like a blade style mini fuse) Should the fuse be between batt and switch? or between switch and starter motor?

Anyway, I know I should just do trial and error and figure it out myself, but, I'm at work and bored, so I thought maybe somebody could give me more of a clue about this.

thx!

 

[retiredgentleman]

I see the push button switch is rated for 60 amps, so it should work for your starter motor. However, I seem to recall that the starter relay (solenoid) was rated for 100 amps.

A fuse is not used to supply the starter motor.

You need to use a large gauge cable around #6 gauge...............#8 gauge may work also.

You could hold it in your hand to try it first time. It could also be mounted to a plate on the bike. The switch casing does not need to be grounded, but it would be grounded if it was mounted to a metal plate.

 

[emzdogz]

hi, thanks....


Another thing to figure out is re: attaching the thick gauge wire to a ring connector small enough to fit under the head of the screws on the back of the switch (which are pretty small, much smaller than the screws on the solenoid)

Anyway, thanks again!

 

[gggGary]

Just want to throw out here Cause I did not see what your switch is rated for... If the current is too heavy for the switch the contacts could fuse which leaves no way to disconnect the starter. If the switch does not have screws large enough for a big ring terminal I have to question whether it should be used in a starter circuit????

 

[emzdogz]

Just want to throw out here Cause I did not see what your switch is rated for... If the current is too heavy for the switch the contacts could fuse which leaves no way to disconnect the starter. If the switch does not have screws large enough for a big ring terminal I have to question whether it should be used in a starter circuit????

Gary, see link to switch in 1st post....

well this is the link:
http://www.debrix.com/Standard-Push-Button-Starter-Switch-Harley-p/15012-m1.htm

 

[CDNTX650]

no way i would use a switch for that.....Thats hack. Solenoid...

Jman electrician tellin ya.

 

[retiredgentleman]

The starter motor probably draws 60 amps, so if the PB switch is a "quality " switch, then it will work (web site mentioned silver plated contacts).

It will likely work..................would I use it?..........no, I would use a relay (solenoid) rated for 100 amps.

 

[emzdogz]

well I myself am "hack", so I'll let ya know how it goes... thanks guys..... see ya on the other side if it goes badly! I won't say you didn't warn me.

 

[emzdogz]

ok I have decided to go ahead and use the old stock solenoid. I understand that a wire from batt. attaches to one of the poles and that the starter motor cable goes to the other.
The solenoid also has two built in wires coming off it, one with a male end bullet connector and one with DOUBLE female connector.

Starter button has two screws on back for connectors.

Question: what, if anything, needs to happen with the empty half of the double female connector? is there another connection that must be made there?

I will be mounting the solenoid directly to steel, with a steel bolt, so it will be grounded.

thx again....

 

[kvanderploeg]

You're correct on the wiring to the starter, but not on the actuator.

Positive from battery to one side of the pushbutton switch
Other side of switch to one of the actuator wires
Other actuator wire to ground

Kent

 

[emzdogz]

You're correct on the wiring to the starter, but not on the actuator.

Positive from battery to one side of the pushbutton switch
Other side of switch to one of the actuator wires
Other actuator wire to ground

Kent

wow, ok, thanks I am really glad I asked.

I saw a thread (I think) where you were wondering about mounting the solenoid/relay/activator/thingy. So, how'd that work out? did you find a good place?

 

[CDNTX650]

you can do it the other way too. + right to the one wire on the solenoid, One - wire to the switch, and another from the switch to the other solenoid wire. I think thats actually how they are done on the the bikes in stock form.