Starter trouble shooting

[Alberta Dave]

So here it comes.
My setup: 750 big bore kit. 270 rephased. Pandemonium 270 ignition, single phase sparxs alternator, kick and button start.

Here is what happened:
Put the bike together, wired it up tried to start it. Nothing happened, engine spins, spark just on the left cylinder electronic ignition got tostet.

Digging in to the cause:
Kicked the bike over a couple of times just for the hell of it and noticed some sparks jumping from kicker arm to rear brake paddle. Some sort of shortage, at some point the startet motor didn’t want to turn over at all unless the kicker arm was pushed and hold down and create contact to the brake paddle.
Was looking for an open or crushed wier around the kicker arm area, between engine and swing arm… nothing… instead I found the rear brake rod quite hot.
Something is grounding out!
No open wire!

Time to check the starter it self.
Took that sucker out and had to find have half of the engine oil in it.
Cool, oil cooled stater motor…
Cleaned that thing out, socked it for a couple of hours in cleaning alcohol.
Replaced all of the seals, brushes cleaned it and put It back in the bike.
Ignition is at this point not installed!

As I pushed the starter bike to see how the starter motor turns the engine over everything appears fine.
Until I decided to check the sparking kicker phenomenon.
First nothing, and than it happened again for a couple of times… and then it stoped.
Engine spins fine, starter spins fine no sparks in between the kicker and the brake paddle.

However… don’t trust problems that seems to fix them self…

Took the starter out again and thought to measure for continuity.
And there it is.
Continuity between the positive prong on the starter, and the starter shaft.

Ok no problem got three other starters to fuck around with….
All of my starters are having continuity between the positiv prong and the starter shaft.

That doesn’t seem right?
An I wrong or do I start to loos my mind?
Shouldn’t the shaft be grounded to the starter housing.
Cause that way the shaft is pushing positive from the battery in to the engine in the frame and the nearest, and weakest sport will get hot like the rear brake rod.
What also is the reason why my freakin electronic ignition got toasted… I think…

Or do I see this wrong? Is this how the starter suppose to work? What are the odds that every single starter I own is fucked?

Need some different points of view here.
Thanks.
Cheer

 

[jpdevol]

All of my starters are having continuity between the positiv prong and the starter shaft.

That doesn’t seem right?

There will be some continuity - but a resistance value .5 - 1 Ohm from positive terminal through windings to case/ground: normal DC electric motor behavior.

I suspect that the bike is wired incorrectly and the engine is not properly grounded (paint, powder coat, no strap). So, when current is supplied to starter it's trying to find ground via brake pedal, etc. If a capacitor is present, it just happened to get discharged and the sparx disappeared. Prior to that it may have found ground through the ignition to camshaft (guess)

 

[Jim]

and the engine is not properly grounded (paint, powder coat, no strap). So, when current is supplied to starter it's trying to find ground via brake pedal, etc.

That'd be my guess also.

 

[Alberta Dave]

I suspect that the bike is wired incorrectly and the engine is not properly grounded (paint, powder coat, no strap). So, when current is supplied to starter it's trying to find ground via brake pedal, etc. If a capacitor is present, it just happened to get discharged and the sparx disappeared. Prior to that it may have found ground through the ignition to camshaft (guess)

I thought so as well went through it and nothing… but….. When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains however improbable must be the truth.

 

[badlegbill]

You've probably already checked the delivery side between solenoid and starter for chafing,if not it might be worth undoing the connection at the starter, isolating it and seeing what happens. High currents at low voltage can be sneaky.