Wiring Issues 2

[connor1]

Using the attached Simplified XS650 wiring diagram with PAmco and kicker only. Took pictures today to hopefully find out what I am screwing up.

Cant figure out how to connect the alternator out six prong plug (3 white, b, blk, g) to the reg/rect. I have tried to wire up the 73 rect but the wiring does not match up to the wiring diagram, as the 73 rect has 3white, r, blk. Also have another piece of hardware that I think may be a reg/rec that the bike originally had on it that has 2 brown, yellow, black. None of the wire colors match up to the wiring diagram that show 3 white 1 green, 1 black, 1 brown coming out of the reg/rect. Neither of my reg/rect have this wirie combination. Please see attached pics for details on what I am working with. Am I missing the correct rectifier?

Thanks in advance.....

 

[hmusket]

Take a look at these diagrams, from the tech section thread on some wiring diagrams:

http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae54/inxs-de/wiring/wiring.jpg
http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae54/inxs-de/wiring/xs650allyears.jpg

They may help since you don't have the combined rec/reg

 

[connor1]

Any pics of what the combined reg/rec looks like?

 

[member3480]

Do you have stock harness. Take the wires and plugs from that and its easy

 

[hmusket]

Up to and including '79 separate regulator and rectifier. Eighty and after, combined. Your second picture may not be the regulator, but instead the safety starter relay, your third picture does look like the rectifier. Look on the left side of your battery box for a part similar to the one in your second picture that may have the green, black, brown wires.

 

[connor1]

Ok, so I now (thanks to your help, guys) have the proper (I hope) regulator (with the green part) and the rectifier wired up following the wiring diagram.

Flip the switch on, which should put voltage to the brushes and create a mag. field, but the feeler gague does not slap. Even tested the feeler gague with a magnet and it is ferrous. I have good voltage at the plug on the black wire. "Note-the six wire out of the alternator on my bike has 3 whites, one blue, one black, and one green. But per curlys post, "Some" bikes have a black instead of a brown." I have been assuming since I read that that my black wire is my mysterious missing brown wire.

Anyway, thinking maybe there is a problem between the plug and the alt?

Here is a pic of what I found on removing the cover. No screws on the brushes to test for voltage....is that the problem?? OR is this correct if I have a solid state ignition, as I believe I do......

PS- Also posted a glamor pic of the entire bike....

 

[rebel542]

You don't have electronic (solid state) ignition. You don't have any brushes either.

 

[ippytattoo]

+1 to no brushes in the pics you posted. No brushes=no power flowing=no magnetic field. Get yourself some brushes and go through Curly's guide. This may be agood time to check the resistance between the 2 slip rings on the rotor.

 

[connor1]

Thanks guys. Once again members have been very helpful in my learning process.

I looked for brushes on Mikes XS, and it appears the "brush" slips in the plastic slot which is then covered by the brush bracket and screws to the housing through some electrical terminals. I do not have the screws. Mikes also sells a brush holder guard with 2 screws each. Figure I should order the brushes and the guard so I have all the parts.

Sound like a plan?

 

[timbeck]

Follow ippytattoo's advice---check the resistance between the two slip rings on the rotor if not good perhaps a PMA swap is in your future---good luck

 

[connor1]

Installed the brushs I got from Mikes XS. One of the brush brackets has just one hole for a screw, the other has 3 holes for three screw. Please see pic.

Every time I turn the main switch on after installing the brushes I burn the 10amp fuse that I put the alternator circuit on. Anything obviously wrong??

 

[member3480]

First what year bike and what REG/REC
Brown wire from brushes goes to 12Volts so if you ground it out POP GOES THE FUSE
If you are useing single REG?REC you have to use plastic screws.
If you have Seperate REG and REC then look for a ground issue or you got a bad Alt Shorted to ground. I had one do the same thing and it was just the wrong REG/REC on bike

 

[connor1]

Motor is from a 72. Very basic wiring harness. Been checking things, I have 12.5 volts going to the regulator, but only 4.4 volts going to the brushes. And yes, I has power wire going to ground.

Trying to use stock reg & rect (as of now, I have the chrylser reg, just waiting for nylon screws).'

Not sure how I can get the reg to send out proper voltage.

 

[XSLeo]

That diagram won't work, that's for an 80 up combo reg/rec. You need to use one for a 70-79 bike.
On the 70-79 there is no brown wire to the brushes.
There is a black wire that hooks to the brush with the three holes in the mounting strap. The strap grounds the brush to the stator frame, the black wire grounds the brush to the harness.
The green wire at the brushes hooks to the brush with just one screw.
Power to the rotor comes to the brush on the green wire from the reg. When the reg sences a low voltage it sends power to the brush.
If you wired it up like in that diagram you are sending power straight to ground. That blows fuses.
I like this diagram. It shows the basic points with seperate reg and rec with upgrades in boxes. Just follow the basic diagram.
Leo

 

[connor1]

Did my best to research (ok, google) "checking the resistance between the two slip rings" and the pic shows what I got. Hopefully I placed the probes in the right area. If not, please school me.

 

[rebel542]

That is correct and you should be good to go with the rotor.

 

[connor1]

Decided to go with the Radio Shack Rectifier and Napa Regulator setup, as my reg and rect were old and crusty.

Despite getting 12 volts to the regulator (voltmeter tested) and have continuity across the ground (tested again) I would not get the reg to deliver more than .3 volts to the green wire to the brushes. So I temporarily ran a jumper wire from the fuse block to the green brushes wire to supply the alternoter with the needed voltage. I hooked up the rectifiers grounded out the black alternator wire and the RPM on idle went sown by about 30% and the battery started getting charged to 18 volts. Turned the bike off immediately fearing over charge.

1) Is the 18 volts going to cause a problem? I thought I would looking for charging around 14.5 volts.

2) Any reason the reg would not work (brand new reg here) with proper voltage and grounded to frame? Did I just buy a bad one and need to get another?

3) Is no reg the reason I am getting 18 volts of output? I thought the reg was to control the voltage TO the brushes, and the rect correct the AC to DC, so what keeps the voltage at the proper level.

Thanks in advance...

 

[XSLeo]

The 18 volts shows you that the rotor and stator are working. Your jumper wire is maxing out the alternator by bypassing the regulator.
Depending on just which reg you got it controls the current flow through the rotor at different places.
The one in the first pic controls the current before the brushes the second after the brushes.
The way the brushes are wired is dependent on which reg you use.
The first one you wire the brushes as the 70-79 did. If you use the second you wire the brushes as the 80 up bikes.
On the first reg power flows to the reg and when the batterey voltage is low it sends power to the brush on the green wire, through the rotor out on the black wire and grounds at the brush and through the black wire to a harness ground.
If hooking power to the green wire gets you 18 volts then you have it wired as a 70-79. On the first reg you need to hook the yellow and orange wires together and then to power after ther key switch. Green to the green wire to the brush, black to ground.
I think the reg uses two wires to hook to power is that on the car it got power on one wire to feed the rotor and the other wire was a voltage sencing wire. So both need to get power.
Leo

 

[connor1]

I have the reg in your second pic.

If I understand you correctly, perhaps the reason that the reg "appeared" to be inop was b/c it had not yet sensed low voltage so it was not sending out voltage to the green brush wire, and thus I can no alternator output! I will go out into the garage, hook it back up and run the bike long enough drain the battery to see if it kicks in....

 

[XSLeo]

With the reg in the second pic you need to wire your brushes as a later model. Use three nylon screws to isolate the ground. This reg controls the current flow after the rotor.
With that reg you need to send power to the black wire brush, the power then flows through the rotor, out on the green wire to the reg, the brown wire to the reg is just used as a voltage sencer. If the voltage is low it grounds the green wire to let current flow through the rotor.
If you hooked up the brown and green wires at the reg reversed it will fry the reg as soon as you turn the key on.
I used the same reg from Advanced Auto, It has a one year free replacement warranty, so when I burnt mine I just took it back for a new one.
You also need to ground the case. I ran a wire from under a mount bolt to the negitive battery cable where it bolts to the frame. And remamber in it's stock form the battery box is not a ground, it mounts in rubber bushings.
Here's a digram of how to wire that reg.
Leo