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1980 Rootbeer Bobber
- Thread starter wannabridin
- Start date
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- Tags
- build
Here's the crank info thread: http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31213
AFAIK Hugh has also modified his crank welding technique down to three divots, instead of the near full circumference beads he used early on. This will be my method when I finally get a crank welded.
I feel some of the problem here is simply age, the pins are press fit into the journals. 30+ years later the metal has relaxed, the fit is not as tight as it was when new. springs sag, so do butts and boobs, press fits relax over time.
Side note; I feel there has been excessive riding of Hugh on the forum RE supplying aftermarket parts and techniques, just like the factory, he is experiencing some live and learn, and he does appear to learn, users of short run parts and procedures are part of the test fleet, that's life in the world of custom. Ask any Buell owner about "buyers as test dummies" Sure in an ideal world all parts would be American made with exhaustive life cycle testing but the one guy that could afford those "super" parts spends his money on his Veyron... And I'll bet dollars to donuts Veyron owners have "issues" too.
I feel some of the problem here is simply age, the pins are press fit into the journals. 30+ years later the metal has relaxed, the fit is not as tight as it was when new. springs sag, so do butts and boobs, press fits relax over time.
Side note; I feel there has been excessive riding of Hugh on the forum RE supplying aftermarket parts and techniques, just like the factory, he is experiencing some live and learn, and he does appear to learn, users of short run parts and procedures are part of the test fleet, that's life in the world of custom. Ask any Buell owner about "buyers as test dummies" Sure in an ideal world all parts would be American made with exhaustive life cycle testing but the one guy that could afford those "super" parts spends his money on his Veyron... And I'll bet dollars to donuts Veyron owners have "issues" too.
Good info again guys, thanks. So if my counterweight widths and overall widths are within spec, do you think I'll be good to run without any rebuilding??
Now what's the consensus on the little end and the copper coating? I know the two schools of thought (coating required vs. not), but nothing that Yamaha recommends.
Now what's the consensus on the little end and the copper coating? I know the two schools of thought (coating required vs. not), but nothing that Yamaha recommends.
also, got some stuff from Hughs in the mail: 2" fork lowering, weld-on headlight mount and windowed neck gussets.
also got my xs1 cam regrind back from Oregon cam grinding. had a speedo eliminator turned but need to check fit (looks too short). also need to check the fit on my OD 5th after I had the ID bored out for the larger shaft.
Started painting my wheels too, got one half of each done in the base coat, will wait awhile to finish those up so the paint cures properly.
still need to order my brat kit from VI and start working on my frame
also got my xs1 cam regrind back from Oregon cam grinding. had a speedo eliminator turned but need to check fit (looks too short). also need to check the fit on my OD 5th after I had the ID bored out for the larger shaft.
Started painting my wheels too, got one half of each done in the base coat, will wait awhile to finish those up so the paint cures properly.
still need to order my brat kit from VI and start working on my frame
CDNTX650
XS650 Guru
If the bottom end checks out...no excessive side play and bearings look good I'd run it. I rarely see 6000rpm though. So welding wouldn't be high on my priority list either.
Small ends...well if 3/4 of the copper is there and there is no crazy axial play with the wrist pins I'd run it. My last crank had bad axial play in the small ends and super blued wrist pins. I had new rods put on. Had the shop true it and then a friend of mine did a small bead of tig weld on the rod pins. Reused bearings.
Bike seems nice and smooth. But I only have break in K on it.
Small ends...well if 3/4 of the copper is there and there is no crazy axial play with the wrist pins I'd run it. My last crank had bad axial play in the small ends and super blued wrist pins. I had new rods put on. Had the shop true it and then a friend of mine did a small bead of tig weld on the rod pins. Reused bearings.
Bike seems nice and smooth. But I only have break in K on it.
Anyone here want to inspect and possibly replace my rods for me?? :-D I might just get some of Mikes rods since they're an upgrade anyways, but I'm not sure yet.
Got my OD 5th back, and it fits on just fine. That's a relief!! Also got Hugh's headlight mount welded onto the lower triple, my welder did a pretty good job.
Got my OD 5th back, and it fits on just fine. That's a relief!! Also got Hugh's headlight mount welded onto the lower triple, my welder did a pretty good job.
racerdave
^ Gone not forgotten ^
Wow. Thats some mail delivery vehicle you got there Gary. How is it in the snow?
Whatcha could do is take yer crank and new wristpins to a machine shop. Show them the crank and wristpin/small-end specs I posted earlier. See if they'll measure them for ya...
CDNTX650
XS650 Guru
What do they look like. Small ends bad or what?
I'll probably just bring it up to work and have my QC dept measure them, as they have MUCH nicer inspection tools than I do.
I'm still concerned with the big-end to counterweight width, as I think there's too much play. I've still not measured the crank widths, hopefully tonight.
Might be something with the big-end shims. They could be worn down a little, or:
Early in '70, the cranks were modified to use shims p/n 256-11685-00, with side clearance spec of 0.012" - 0.024" (0.3mm - 0.6mm).
Then, somewhere around '76-'77, the rod shim part number was changed to 90209-26014-00, with side clearance spec of 0.006" - 0.016" (0.15mm - 0.4mm).
This new shim superceded the old shim, so it shows in the revised parts manuals for the older models. There's no info I can find about the specifics of the change, wondering if they're the same thickness. Note that the rod side clearance specs tightened up about the same time as this shim change...
Early in '70, the cranks were modified to use shims p/n 256-11685-00, with side clearance spec of 0.012" - 0.024" (0.3mm - 0.6mm).
Then, somewhere around '76-'77, the rod shim part number was changed to 90209-26014-00, with side clearance spec of 0.006" - 0.016" (0.15mm - 0.4mm).
This new shim superceded the old shim, so it shows in the revised parts manuals for the older models. There's no info I can find about the specifics of the change, wondering if they're the same thickness. Note that the rod side clearance specs tightened up about the same time as this shim change...
If that's the case, then I'll likely need to have the crank serviced to bring it back into spec.
What is the consensus of Mikes upgraded rods? Are they worth it, even if mine are in decent shape? If the crank is apart that far, my thoughts are that it's worth the $190 to get a better performing rod on there. I could then have my welder throw some good tacks (minimal filler metal to keep it flush) on the just the ends to keep them from walking any, a slight peace of mind if I may.
What is the consensus of Mikes upgraded rods? Are they worth it, even if mine are in decent shape? If the crank is apart that far, my thoughts are that it's worth the $190 to get a better performing rod on there. I could then have my welder throw some good tacks (minimal filler metal to keep it flush) on the just the ends to keep them from walking any, a slight peace of mind if I may.
scabber
XS650 Guru
If your rods are ok a waste if money. New valve springs would be a better investment.
Fair enough, good to know. I'll have to take it to a shop for disassembly, measurements and reassembly then.
What springs are you thinking about? Kathos just reported some issues with the high performance units from Mikes, saying the keepers are poorly designed and could cause a spring to pop off, which would NOT be good. Everything I've read leads me to think that even used springs are still good, even with my XS1 grind cam.
What springs are you thinking about? Kathos just reported some issues with the high performance units from Mikes, saying the keepers are poorly designed and could cause a spring to pop off, which would NOT be good. Everything I've read leads me to think that even used springs are still good, even with my XS1 grind cam.
I am Carbon
shade tree mechanic
Hoos Racings some eal good suff
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=jWTqdtQa8ke0J6JVl1qKUQ&bvm=bv.84607526,d.eXY
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=jWTqdtQa8ke0J6JVl1qKUQ&bvm=bv.84607526,d.eXY
scabber
XS650 Guru
The 103-Y springs are the ones recommended the shell #1 cam.
Question: I have a pair of brembo calipers and I'm going to mount one on the rear and one up front. I'm kind of partial to the calipers being on the same side of the bike, so would there be any issue with switching the front forks around and running the caliper as a leading caliper? I would switch the wheel around too and I'm running a speedo delete, so that's no-issue.
I am Carbon
shade tree mechanic
I think there is enough meat in the mount for it to work okay.
Of course I am no expert in that.
I do know one of the early models had the front brakes that way
Of course I am no expert in that.
I do know one of the early models had the front brakes that way
That's my thoughts, but I do know that some forks are designed to handle the braking stresses only when the moment forces are applied as designed, not the other way.
