Good thought Frederick. ....and where might one get a smaller diameter master cylinder?
Pete
Pete
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Build Thread...Special to Cafe Bike
- Thread starter MaxPete
- Start date
Many have had success using the 11mm unit from another Yamaha, the TTR225 or TW200. A nice used one can usually be found on eBay for about $25. They fit our needs because they include a mirror and brake light switch mount. But, this isn't something you need change right away. It can be done sometime in the future if you feel the need. Personally, I don't. I think my original works just fine even though many claim the size is wrong. Do thoroughly clean the components and replace the line now, but I'd hold off on replacing the MC until you've had a chance to try yours. It may work just fine for you too.
Hi Pete,
seems 5twins knows about that. And although I hate to disagree with the master the stock 35mm fork XS650 front m/c is so TOO FUCKING BIG.
Which is why although the bastard works kinda OK it feels like squeezing a block of wood.
I didn't downsize my Heritage Special's m/c though, I took the alternate option of converting to dual front disks.
You could too. Dual Disk just about defines the café racer look and the right look surely trumps the increase in unsprung weight, eh?
You'll need (of course) a second disk. Try for late model XS11 slotted disks to save some unsprung weight and drilling all those holes
through one of the toughest Stainless Steel alloys I've ever worked on.
And a left-side caliper from an XS750/850/1100 STANDARD. The Weird Harold calipers on those bikes SPECIALS are not compatible.
And Stainless hoses, 3 short or 2 long, you choose.
You will find that the stock m/c, once given 2 calipers to operate instead of just one, will give just about perfect brake feel instead of
feeling like wood.
You can also visit the Vintage Brake site that'll give you Mike Morse's brake piston diameter chart.
TimeMachine
SeventyEighte
This is Good Stuff to read ! Thanks all you putting in all this info ! , RT
Very cool info 5T and Fred - thanks so much!
I am going to go DD on the cafe. I've already secured a second disc and I've got an LHS caliper as well. It is still too danged cold out there in the Disaster Central workshop for me so I can't really say what sort of shape the master cylinder is in but it appears to be a bit of a mess. Not to worry, I'll get there. I'll certainly be replacing the hoses with braided and will likely drill the discs too (but not with 20mm holes - even though they look cool ...in a sort of an I don't know what the he!! I'm doing kind of way).
On another front, I had to go to Seattle on business this past week (my own business - don'tcha know...
) and while I was there, I had a chance to do a meet-up with Brassneck who created the inspiration for my own bike. All I can say is what a nice guy, what a talented motorcycle craftsman and wow - his bike is even more impressive in-person! He let me sit on it and I learned a couple of useful things:
1) those rear-sets are fairly high;
2) my knees don't go quite that high. ....at least not for long.
3) the clubman bars may be too low for my old back.
So...I'll be doing some mods on the rearsets to bring them down to a place where I can ride comfortably and I may switch over to a simple set of flat handlebars - but I sure do love the look he has created. The paint job on his bike is really beautiful and he sure has that machine sort out nicely.
Anyhow, onward and upward!
Pete
I am going to go DD on the cafe. I've already secured a second disc and I've got an LHS caliper as well. It is still too danged cold out there in the Disaster Central workshop for me so I can't really say what sort of shape the master cylinder is in but it appears to be a bit of a mess. Not to worry, I'll get there. I'll certainly be replacing the hoses with braided and will likely drill the discs too (but not with 20mm holes - even though they look cool ...in a sort of an I don't know what the he!! I'm doing kind of way).
On another front, I had to go to Seattle on business this past week (my own business - don'tcha know...
) and while I was there, I had a chance to do a meet-up with Brassneck who created the inspiration for my own bike. All I can say is what a nice guy, what a talented motorcycle craftsman and wow - his bike is even more impressive in-person! He let me sit on it and I learned a couple of useful things:1) those rear-sets are fairly high;
2) my knees don't go quite that high. ....at least not for long.
3) the clubman bars may be too low for my old back.
So...I'll be doing some mods on the rearsets to bring them down to a place where I can ride comfortably and I may switch over to a simple set of flat handlebars - but I sure do love the look he has created. The paint job on his bike is really beautiful and he sure has that machine sort out nicely.
Anyhow, onward and upward!
Pete
Yes, the cafe stance is all about a quick 20 minute blast through the twisties. After that, forget it, lol. They get real uncomfortable real quick. I have a MG LeMans with clip-ons and somewhat rearset pegs. The clip-ons I can put up with, the rearsets not so much. My legs cramp up big time on longer rides. And don't even get me started on the seat, lol. It sure looks swoopy and sexy but feels like not much more than a vinyl covered 2 x 6 after a few hours.
Hi Pete,Very cool info 5T and Fred - thanks so much!
I am going to go DD on the cafe. I've already secured a second disc and I've got an LHS caliper as well. It is still too danged cold out there in the Disaster Central workshop for me so I can't really say what sort of shape the master cylinder is in but it appears to be a bit of a mess. Not to worry, I'll get there. I'll certainly be replacing the hoses with braided and will likely drill the discs too (but not with 20mm holes - even though they look cool ...in a sort of an I don't know what the he!! I'm doing kind of way).
On another front, I had to go to Seattle on business this past week (my own business - don'tcha know...
1) those rear-sets are fairly high;
2) my knees don't go quite that high. ....at least not for long.
3) the clubman bars may be too low for my old back.
So...I'll be doing some mods on the rearsets to bring them down to a place where I can ride comfortably and I may switch over to a simple set of flat handlebars - but I sure do love the look he has created. The paint job on his bike is really beautiful and he sure has that machine sort out nicely.
Anyhow, onward and upward!
Pete
too cold to work at Disaster Central?
Princess Auto can fix that with a portable heater for a reasonable cost. Lots of different units to choose from.
Sure you wouldn't prefer XS1100 slotted disks?
If not, you'll need a drill press, 3/16" to begin with & then 3/8" Cobalt Steel drill bits (or 5mm & 10mm)
a bigger'n'Jesus centerpunch & a BFH to start the holes.
Use extreme pressure, lowest speed and drown the job in cutting oil.
Vise-Grip the two disks together back to back and make like a Beaver.
Any pattern with enough holes in it will work so long as it's symmetrical for balance' sake.
Note that I have seen photos of disks drilled into patterns that spelled out obscene words and
one over-achiever with a laser cutter who cut out naughty shapes.
Good that you discovered the 'peg position discomfort on someone else's bike.
And Vincent-pattern 'bars. What better to put on a café-racer?
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Indeed - I think that all of us types who were children of the 50s, 60s and 70s are running into these limitations, but it will be fine. What we lack in flexibility and agility, we make up in experience and guile.
I have access to a shop with Bridgeports and a dividing head. On the other hand....those XS11 rotors could be good. Hmmmmm.
Cheers,
Pete
I have access to a shop with Bridgeports and a dividing head. On the other hand....those XS11 rotors could be good. Hmmmmm.
Cheers,
Pete
Pete, those dual front discs will look very sharp up front. Glad you are going that direction.
I know what you mean about the rear sets. I've taken some demo rides of Japanese sport bikes at bike shows and Yowza! I don't know how people contort themselves like that. I would have to find a more moderate riding position.
You know unless you're creating garage art! Haha
I know what you mean about the rear sets. I've taken some demo rides of Japanese sport bikes at bike shows and Yowza! I don't know how people contort themselves like that. I would have to find a more moderate riding position.
You know unless you're creating garage art! Haha
Nope - this puppy will be a rider. I don't believe in garage queens.
As for the crotch rockets - yup, I have sat on them and I simply cannot fathom how people ride like that.
Cheers,
Pete
As for the crotch rockets - yup, I have sat on them and I simply cannot fathom how people ride like that.
Cheers,
Pete
Very nice - thanks Skull! That bike must hard to catch in the twisties!
Pete
Pete
Before committing to dual disc front brakes....... The XS1100/XS650 rotor weighs about 7 lbs. The caliper weighs over 2 more. The extra brake is 10 extra pounds of unsprung weight. Most of us are trying to shed extra weight. The XS650 wasn't designed for that much. The Euro and Oceania models had smaller rotors. Will it work? Yes, it will.
From Wikipedia:
From Wikipedia:
johnnyc14
XS650 Addict
I know what you guys are talking about regarding the rear seta and low bars. Every time I ride my sons Triumph Daytona 675 it only takes about 15 minutes to become unbearable.
Pete if you decide to go with dual XS11 disc on the front I have a set. I was going to go that route with the front brake before I got distracted by the Buell brake. Do you ever travel to Edmonton? Leave room in your suitcase next time you do and you can take them home with you.
Pete if you decide to go with dual XS11 disc on the front I have a set. I was going to go that route with the front brake before I got distracted by the Buell brake. Do you ever travel to Edmonton? Leave room in your suitcase next time you do and you can take them home with you.
Pete, if you're wanting maximum braking with minimum weight, then another choice may be a single disc with a Brembo 4 piston caliper. It gives you more braking than you will ever need. If you want more braking than that, you could also add another 4 piston Brembo caliper on the rear wheel. That's what I did and the braking is just amazing!
Hi Marty,
while extra unsprung weight will cost you on the track I doubt it's noticeable on the highway.
I've never noticed a handling difference before and after my own dual disk conversion anyway.
Admittedly I ride like a timid old man. (OK, I AM a timid old man)
But the braking is better after the upgrade package (Single disk fabric lines to dual disk stainless lines)
If that moronic visually impaired participating product of maternal incest who left-turned his car through
a red light in front of my bike had done so before the brake upgrade I'd have likely hit his vehicle instead
of my front tire leaving a black line on the road just short of it.
Meanwhile, back on topic, here's johnnyc14 with a pair of XS1100 slotted disks to add to Pete's project.
Another demonstration of John Bennett's cosmic parts supply theory,
"When you really need a part the motorcycle gods will find you one."
Dang - so many choices.....
I'm pretty up on unsprung weight effects and four piston caliper as I consult for auto firms but, I guess I've been beguiled by the look (does that make me a hipster?) - and my peg scraping days are over. Well, I need to think this through and do a little cypherin' as Jethro Clampett used to say.
Hmmmm.....
Pete
I'm pretty up on unsprung weight effects and four piston caliper as I consult for auto firms but, I guess I've been beguiled by the look (does that make me a hipster?) - and my peg scraping days are over. Well, I need to think this through and do a little cypherin' as Jethro Clampett used to say.
Hmmmm.....
Pete
Hi Pete,
if you have the skills, time and money to make it work, the retiredgentleman's really elegant looking 4-piston fix is the way to go.
OTOH if you want quick, easy and affordable, go dual disk with johnnyc14's free (plus shipping?) XS1100 disks.
FWIW if giving your bike the "look" of a 1960's Café racer is your primary concern dual disk is where it's at.
Along with straight bars, a bumstop seat and footpegs set as far back as your knees can comfortably manage.
Yup - that's likely where I'm headed Fred. The 4 piston Brembo setup would be superb....and is doable but would not likely receive Budget Committee approval ( 
) and so I'll have to optimize.
....she said sweetly.
PM sent to JohnnyC.
Pete
) and so I'll have to optimize. ....she said sweetly. PM sent to JohnnyC.
Pete
Pete.......................as an engineer, you know there is only one possible choice you can make. Maximum braking and minimum weight is all about efficiency. Those 8 to 10 lbs of extra unsprung weight,with a dual disc set up, is like dragging an anchor around.
When I go to bike nights here in Calgary, sometimes I'm treated like a rock star. Fellow bikers say words like ooh and awe, when they spot my Brembo calipers, and then rush over to see them.
Seems to me there are only two types of bike owners; those that have Brembos and those that want Brembos.
New Brembos are expensive, but I bought mine used.
You might be able to get it through the Budget Committee, if you offered her some type of equal purchase, i.e. jewelry often works for me.
When I go to bike nights here in Calgary, sometimes I'm treated like a rock star. Fellow bikers say words like ooh and awe, when they spot my Brembo calipers, and then rush over to see them.
Seems to me there are only two types of bike owners; those that have Brembos and those that want Brembos.
New Brembos are expensive, but I bought mine used.
You might be able to get it through the Budget Committee, if you offered her some type of equal purchase, i.e. jewelry often works for me.
