-
Enjoy XS650.com? Consider making a donation to help support the site.
XS650.com receives a small share of sales from some links on this page, but direct donations have a much greater impact on keeping this site going.
Build Thread...Special to Cafe Bike
- Thread starter MaxPete
- Start date
Quote:
" I believe the physical effect that causes the armature to move is called Lenz's Law."
No, that's not correct. We all know that iron is attracted to a magnet or an electromagnet. Our bike's starter relay (correct name is a contactor) is made up of an electromagnet and an iron armature that moves. When we push the push button,a small amount of current flows in the electromagnet coil, produces a magnetic field, which pulls the armature and closes the heavy duty contacts and a large current flows from battery to starter motor. Its that simple, but its not an example of Lenz's Law.
Lenz's Law. A principle stating that an electric current, induced by a source such as a changing magnetic field, always creates a counterforce opposing the force inducing it. This law explains such phenomena as diamagnetism and the electrical properties of inductors. Inductors impede a current that is increasing, and will try to increase a current that is decreasing.
Relays, contactors and solenoids all work on the same principle. Send a small current through an electromagnet, produce a magnetic field (flux) which causes an iron/steel armature to move. Relays are small is size and use a very small current to switch a larger current. Contactors tend to be larger and are designed to use a small current to switch a very large current. Relays might switch 5 to 10 amps as an example, but contactors switch 20, or 50 or 100 amps or even much larger.
Solenoids are a little different. Instead of using a small current to switch a larger current, they use a small current to move an armature only. A solenoid armature might be operating a valve that controls air flow or fluid flow. In my previous job, I worked with robotics, and many solenoids were used for control purposes. Another example of a solenoid, was when cars/trucks used a solenoid mounted to the side of the starter motor. The solenoid armature physically moved a gear that slid into the flywheel to crank the engine. So, you see we should not call the starter contactor, on our bikes, a solenoid, we should call them what they are which is a contactor.
Quote:
"When you hit the button and your battery is weak, you often hear just a "click" and that is the armature trying to move to complete the high current secondary circuit - but there isn't enough power available to drive the armature all the way and complete the high current secondary circuit - so no cranking power connection occurs. "
Pete...............Not quite right. When you have a very weak battery, the click you hear is the armature of the contactor moving fully and hitting its normal set of heavy contacts. There is enough current available to operate the armature, but not enough current to crank the starter motor. The battery positive terminal is switched by the contactor to the starter motor windings, but there is no current
flow so no cranking occurs. You might say the starter motor is "stalled".
" I believe the physical effect that causes the armature to move is called Lenz's Law."
No, that's not correct. We all know that iron is attracted to a magnet or an electromagnet. Our bike's starter relay (correct name is a contactor) is made up of an electromagnet and an iron armature that moves. When we push the push button,a small amount of current flows in the electromagnet coil, produces a magnetic field, which pulls the armature and closes the heavy duty contacts and a large current flows from battery to starter motor. Its that simple, but its not an example of Lenz's Law.
Lenz's Law. A principle stating that an electric current, induced by a source such as a changing magnetic field, always creates a counterforce opposing the force inducing it. This law explains such phenomena as diamagnetism and the electrical properties of inductors. Inductors impede a current that is increasing, and will try to increase a current that is decreasing.
Relays, contactors and solenoids all work on the same principle. Send a small current through an electromagnet, produce a magnetic field (flux) which causes an iron/steel armature to move. Relays are small is size and use a very small current to switch a larger current. Contactors tend to be larger and are designed to use a small current to switch a very large current. Relays might switch 5 to 10 amps as an example, but contactors switch 20, or 50 or 100 amps or even much larger.
Solenoids are a little different. Instead of using a small current to switch a larger current, they use a small current to move an armature only. A solenoid armature might be operating a valve that controls air flow or fluid flow. In my previous job, I worked with robotics, and many solenoids were used for control purposes. Another example of a solenoid, was when cars/trucks used a solenoid mounted to the side of the starter motor. The solenoid armature physically moved a gear that slid into the flywheel to crank the engine. So, you see we should not call the starter contactor, on our bikes, a solenoid, we should call them what they are which is a contactor.
Quote:
"When you hit the button and your battery is weak, you often hear just a "click" and that is the armature trying to move to complete the high current secondary circuit - but there isn't enough power available to drive the armature all the way and complete the high current secondary circuit - so no cranking power connection occurs. "
Pete...............Not quite right. When you have a very weak battery, the click you hear is the armature of the contactor moving fully and hitting its normal set of heavy contacts. There is enough current available to operate the armature, but not enough current to crank the starter motor. The battery positive terminal is switched by the contactor to the starter motor windings, but there is no current
flow so no cranking occurs. You might say the starter motor is "stalled".
Pete, nice fasteners presentation. We have at least a dozen fastener/thread/tap threads in here that could use some scrutiny, and embellishments. Would you consider creating a new thread, dedicated to fasteners and such, reiterating your presentation, and addressing a number of previous threads?
Sure - happy to do that 2M.
Thanks for the corrections RG. I always feel on thin ice when talking about "electrickery".
My late Dad was the toaster in the family and he struggled for years to explain 3-way house lighting switch circuits to me.
Cheers,
Pete
My late Dad was the toaster in the family and he struggled for years to explain 3-way house lighting switch circuits to me.
Cheers,
Pete
Paddy
XS650 Member
- Messages
- 23
- Reaction score
- 15
- Points
- 3
Hey Mailman. I figure we have all put that ubiquitous POS on our bikes at one time or another.
Too funny. Lets make sure Pete doesn't put it on his!
Paddy
XS650 Member
- Messages
- 23
- Reaction score
- 15
- Points
- 3
Thanks for the corrections RG. I always feel on thin ice when talking about "electrickery".
My late Dad was the toaster in the family and he struggled for years to explain 3-way house lighting switch circuits to me.
Cheers,
Pete
Pete! God bless your Dad. 3-Way switches suck. Ha! I can build a house from the dirt hole up but I can't figure out three way switches.
Last edited:
Pete........................not everyone is up to speed on electrical things. I have worked around electronics and electrical equipment all my working life so I guess some of it sunk in
PS .............I like to wire 3 way switches and even 4 way switches!
PS .............I like to wire 3 way switches and even 4 way switches!
Agreed Paddy and you need help RG....
Wait'll you see what I got today and the Workshop all spruced up.
Pete
Pete
Last edited:
If you make it too nice, you can't call it Disaster Central anymore!
I'll make a prediction on the new purchase,
A new bike lift for your cafe build! It'll save wear and tear on your back! Do I win?
I'll make a prediction on the new purchase,
A new bike lift for your cafe build! It'll save wear and tear on your back! Do I win?
Nope - not a lift......but that IS temping....
Mailman is correct about the wear and tear on the old body. Our local HF had a similar lift on sale for $299 and I had a 20 percent off coupon so that made it a little easier to spring for one. Bike has been on it for 3 weeks and so far no hydraulic fluid on the shop floor. Give it time!
TimeMachine
SeventyEighte
Im guessing... a painted XS750 tank ?
I've actually got the XS750 tank (see the photo below) and it is nice and clean inside, but I don't think I will paint anything until all of the other parts (seat / tank / side covers etc.) have been fitted and assembled and any adjustments have been made. Similarly, I will keep the MAC Performance exhaust system in the box till everything is all set on the bike.
My new purchase is actually something along the line of tools / shop furniture (I do have a swivel seated creeper stool already) - there is a photo below, or possibly above - as I cannot seem to consistently achieve the placement of the damned photos in a position of my choosing in these posts.
Anyhow, I was out prowling around at a local farm supply place called TSC (Tractor Supply Company) and the unit on the right in the photo was on sale.... I like the fact that it is a bit bigger, has more drawers and a non-hinged flat top and will serve as a movable workbench as well as a parts & tools storage unit. Finally, even though it is a different brand and has a totally different style of lock, it uses the identical pull handle and it is a perfect colour match for the smaller unit on the left. There must be a factory somewhere in Asia where they make an absolute sh!tload of tool chests and they got a deal on that brownish paint....
Speaking of paint......can I ask for some feedback please?
IDEA - I love the beautiful custom paint jobs that a number of bike builders have done but the idea of spending that kind of money on JUST the paint is off-putting for me. I guess I could afford it - but I don't think that I want to and besides, I think that I'd like to try something a little different.
I am aware of one Forum member who did something different on the paint for his XS650 restoration: he had all of his painted parts powder-coated in his colour of choice and then, presumably, he will have them clear coated which can then be buffed up to a nice shine. While it may not produce quite the lustre of a "proper" paint job, it can be done for a fraction of the cost and I'll bet that it would produce 90-95% of the results plus be more durable than a traditional paint job.
I am sort of thinking I might swipe his idea and do the same thing.....
Thoughts / comments / suggestions?
Dammit. photos - the bain of my existence. They'll be the death of me.
TimeMachine
SeventyEighte
Your pics are fine.. at least this ain't a porn site .. Kudos on the added cubic feet of shop furniture . We are going to see some real XS action soon , Lookin forward to it !
Those are some nice tool boxes! I especially like the one that doubles as a roll around work station. That'll really come in handy.
PS I have no experience w/ powder coating. Can't help you there.
PS I have no experience w/ powder coating. Can't help you there.
Yup - action soon and that's enough furniture.
