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How-To: Permanent Magnet Alternator Swap (Also known as the Banshee Swap)
- Thread starter Punkskalar
- Start date
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- Tags
- electrical engine how to
Good thinking.
Punkskalar
Hugh's HandBuilt
I'm sorry if my wiring diagram seems "useless" 
I can't make a wiring diagram for every possible set up since no two bikes are exactly alike. Some have turn signals, starters, relays for starters, different ignitions, etc... And yes, that wiring diagram is for the charging system ONLY. The rest of your bike will operate just like normal off of the stock harness. If you are keeping the stock wiring harness, all you have to do is remove the stock charging system (just unlug it if you want, don't have to remove all the wiring) and install the new system and everything runs off of the battery/fuse panel just like stock...
Rwingsfan is right on the money
if you are wiring a bike from scratch.
Charging is one setup, ignition is another, and then all the lights and other odds and ends are on a 3rd circuit. You can wire all of those things "Loose" on the bike, make sure it all operates as it should, and then start tidying up things, shortening wiring, hiding it in the frame, etc... I can go on for days and days about wiring, but there is not great way to make a "one size fits all" wiring diagram.
Jcadwell, your regulator will go out in the mail today. I do not have all the exact specifications from it, but it does fit in the stock location. I'm not at the shop today unfortunately to get all the measurements.
xjwmx, I have no idea what you mean by "calling out a few regulators" - You cannot use a stock XS650 regulator, so you will be needing a 3 phase Regulator to make the swap. I keep these in stock for about the same price new as you can find on ebay used. And yes, if you want to gamble on a used regulator, the regulator that matches the used stator you find will work as well, I just don't trust old regulators much.
At this point, I've sold over 300 of these swap kits and regulators, mostly by advertising on the Chop Cult and my blog. Its a simple swap, you guys are overcomplicating it. Its definitely easier to wire up this system (from scratch) than it is to wire up the stock charging system (less wires, less mess)
Whew....... Any other questions
I can't make a wiring diagram for every possible set up since no two bikes are exactly alike. Some have turn signals, starters, relays for starters, different ignitions, etc... And yes, that wiring diagram is for the charging system ONLY. The rest of your bike will operate just like normal off of the stock harness. If you are keeping the stock wiring harness, all you have to do is remove the stock charging system (just unlug it if you want, don't have to remove all the wiring) and install the new system and everything runs off of the battery/fuse panel just like stock...
Rwingsfan is right on the money
if you are wiring a bike from scratch.Charging is one setup, ignition is another, and then all the lights and other odds and ends are on a 3rd circuit. You can wire all of those things "Loose" on the bike, make sure it all operates as it should, and then start tidying up things, shortening wiring, hiding it in the frame, etc... I can go on for days and days about wiring, but there is not great way to make a "one size fits all" wiring diagram.
Jcadwell, your regulator will go out in the mail today. I do not have all the exact specifications from it, but it does fit in the stock location. I'm not at the shop today unfortunately to get all the measurements.
xjwmx, I have no idea what you mean by "calling out a few regulators" - You cannot use a stock XS650 regulator, so you will be needing a 3 phase Regulator to make the swap. I keep these in stock for about the same price new as you can find on ebay used. And yes, if you want to gamble on a used regulator, the regulator that matches the used stator you find will work as well, I just don't trust old regulators much.
At this point, I've sold over 300 of these swap kits and regulators, mostly by advertising on the Chop Cult and my blog. Its a simple swap, you guys are overcomplicating it. Its definitely easier to wire up this system (from scratch) than it is to wire up the stock charging system (less wires, less mess)
Whew....... Any other questions
"Called out" is slang for stuff on a bill of materials. E.g. "Son, don't call out a single source part or you'll kill us all." Or "Some some of a bitch called out a single source part, so do we pay their new price or do we redesign the damn thing?" I spent most of a career calling out stuff.... I forgot myself. Rwingsfan clears it up.
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Punkskalar
Hugh's HandBuilt
No problem. I'm building an electronics box as follows, and trying to fit it into the slot on top as shown in the cad drawing. I have no idea what the stock location is
I see you are using the .8 amp hour camera battery - Good move! Cheap, reliable, and oh yeah, cheap
Punkskalar
Hugh's HandBuilt
I typically do not source all of the parts, since they can be found used at reasonable prices, and I am a small shop and can't keep something on the shelf unless I can make some decent money on it. I'd rather tie up my funds for product testing, prototyping and development
BUT, I do make exceptions for my out of country customers and will take the time to source all of the parts, pack it into one box and get it over there for ya. Since I see you are in AU, I thought I would mention it. Again, I do not make it common practice, but there are exceptions to every rule
Hugh
Puckskalar, I have only one thing I Disagree with you on. In your first post under reasons #1 you say it takes 40 amps to get the stock system to work. I think your wrong. The stock rotor draws about 3-4 amps to create the magnetic feild to excite the stator.
Punkskalar
Hugh's HandBuilt
You are correct, that is a typo....
+1 on rewiring. less wires and you'll know what wires go where in case you have an electrical issues.
jcadwell---- i took a rough measurement of hugh's rec.. i used a tape measure since my caliper is in my box at work. its 2-7/8 x 3 x 1-1/32 thick. the hole is 1/4ish and it is oval. sorry dont know the exact center point of the hole.
jcadwell---- i took a rough measurement of hugh's rec.. i used a tape measure since my caliper is in my box at work. its 2-7/8 x 3 x 1-1/32 thick. the hole is 1/4ish and it is oval. sorry dont know the exact center point of the hole.
Regarding point #5, isn't the replacement used stator as likely to give up the ghost as the original stator or rotor? The only real benefit of this that I see is the ability to start with a very low battery, and if you're willing to forgo e-start, you benefit by being able to use a cap instead of a battery. Also, do people really "not have luck mixing old parts and new"?
Shoot check that man. The 2-7/8 SHOULD be 2-15/16.... the cooling fins taper in. measured from the base this time. if it matters the corners are angled.
oh and the wires are 18awg. there was a discussion i started on wire thickness and the .8 battery. ok thats it i promise.
Punkskalar
Hugh's HandBuilt
The 3 Phase Stators stay stationary in most engines, so no moving parts, no centrifugal forces to put stresses on the windings, no brushes to build heat and wear down, etc... No one I have dealt with has had real luck fixing their stock system and it staying fixed for any justifiable amount of time. I sell these kits to people who have dumped tons of money into their stock charging systems, only to go this route in the end.
You guys crack me up, I've had this exact same post up on the Chop Cult with over 7,600 views and none of the worry about wiring and wether or not the swap works properly and what the benefits are...
I didn't invent this swap, I just improved on it the best I could to make it available to the masses. It's a proven swap, and most anyone who is running the PMA would tell you its the best thing they did to their rides For what its worth, I still run a fairly decent sized battery on my personal ride, a 5LBS. I didn't do it to go batteryless, I did it so I could actually ride my bike instead of worrying about frying batteries, regulators, brushes, and being stranded 300 miles from home. I had replaced every part of the stock system several times, rewired it, etc... I could get about 2-3 months out of the system before something else would fail, usually far away from home. What the point in having a motorcycle if you don't trust it, thats what I initially did the swap, and found methods to improve the swap and decided to market it to the XS650 rider...
Not everyone has the same results I did with the stock systems, but do a few searches, and you'll find that more people have trouble than not with the brushes alternator that comes stock on these bikes...
Punkskalar
Hugh's HandBuilt
Thanks for the info
. I think that what I'll do when my charging system will become a problem on my 72. I was asking about stock wiring harness because my bike is stock and I want to keep it as much as possible.
Punkskalar
Hugh's HandBuilt
Thanks for the info
I would keep that 72 as stock as possible (at least in appearance). I love those early bikes, and they are only gonna keep holding their value or go up as the rest of the XS's get chopped and modded.
I personally want to build an XS1 with a Rephased 750, some mild performance enhancements to the suspension and brace the swingarm. Stock style paint and seat would be soooo sweet!
