Interesting experience with synthetic oil...

[Yamaha_chop]

I'm much appreciating this conversation.

Thanks for all the different insights guys. Motor oils is definitely not something I claim to know a lot about, so the more knowledge the better!

 

[TeeCat]

Leo, thanks for this! This is really great information! And that's a helpful analogy about the river stones! Neat way to think of it!

Honestly, I wish I had played with full synth back this summer, because it would have been interesting to see what the oil temps looked like in the hot weather. But the bike seems very happy so far, so I'll just keep my ears on that little whir (which is not leaving any discernible debris based on my immaculately clean sump filter), and watch the little oil dribble, and ride her. And I don't think it's my imagination, but my "fussy first" seems improved. Maybe I'm just finally figuring it out after all this time...

Thanks again, Leo!

TC

 

[Paul Carr]

It was Bel Ray .... who have a host of regular , semi and full synthetic oil who told me to use 10W40 semi synthetic

 

[wood-z]

Just started using amsoil 20/50 syn this summer replacing yamaha 20/50 - bike seems very noticebly happier,more torue? Cooler? Better mileage? For sure "happier"

 

[PetesPonies]

Understand the basic difference between synthetic and dino oil is at the molecular level. Synthetic molecules literally make a round shape. They roll off each other easily True. There are lots of reasons that synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil. As for packages that are added to the oil,well today's oil has many of those, both in dino and synthetic. Today's dino oils are far superior in many areas than oil from the past. There are some things about it that are worse for older engines though. But its hard to go wrong with synthetics.

 

[xjwmx]

Call me cr@zy but I want more than 'some guy on the internet said.' Show me the original source that says Rotella now sucks.


BTW, if you do switch oils, keep a close eye on the level. Yamaha moto-specific got consumed or seeped away much faster than what I had been using before.

 

[pyrocentric]

^ Rotella did indeed reduce the zinc content last year. I've been adding extra ZDDP ever since.

I've been running 20W-50 all summer with an oil cooler. I've been riding in 40F temperatures lately, and the oil pressure was shooting up to 60psi when cold, likely bypassing the filter.

So I removed the oil cooler and changed to Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 5W-40. Runs great when cold, 10psi oil pressure at idle, shifts great. When warm though, the pressure drops to 0psi, gets tough to shift and clatters like mad.

I guess next I'll mix in some 20W-50 until I get a bike that's actually rideable when warm again. It doesn't seem like I should need an oil cooler in 40F weather.

 

[PetesPonies]

Almost every oil dropped the zinc content, Rotella is one of them. The facts are out there if you care. Anyway, there are zinc additives if anyone wants to beef up the oil. I run synthetics in many of my cars. There is a noticeable difference, in MPG and lack of wear that I have seen. Still for a bike, there are other things you have to be concerned with, so choose wisely when running synthetic in a bike.

 

[Brother]

I'm in no way up on the fine points of synth vs. dino oil, but one thing I have to ask...

Coming from my old aircooled VW hobby, I dont use synth oil in those engines. This is from a few years back, and things may have changed, but the old VW aircooled engines are picky about heat. Dino oil picks up, and disapates, heat better than synthetic oil, or at least did a few years ago. I'm aware that on the VW end of things this is more critical, due to there being an oil cooler inside the fan shroud, to aide in cooling the engine, and in the XS there is no such beast. My question is, do the XS engines notice an increase in running temps from using synthetic oil over dino oil, or is it a wash due to the XS being more of a true air cooled engine than the VW's air/oil cooled engine?

 

[PetesPonies]

I would think the advantages of syn would outweigh anything like you describe. Synthetics cause less heat, therefore the engine runs cooler ( documented ) and synthetics handle heat better ( don't coke up ) . . it would be difficult to pass up on those advantages especially in an air cooled engine. Whether or not they dissipate as well, I do not know. So I am only going by what you say. I have never heard or read anything about heat flow through synthetics. What you are saying is that they have a greater R value, synthetics. And that I do not know. I even used to teach Auto and Engineering, so I dealt with heat and how you control it in both courses. But this never came up in my learning . . interesting.

 

[Brother]

Did some searches and answered my own questions. Seems that the VW related synthetic oil testing was done in the early '80's and the early synthetics/blends are not what they are today. Every report I've seen on the newer synthetics state that while oil temps do drop running synthetic oils the head temps are similar. So taking into consideration the improved oil temps, no increase in head temps, and a heavy edge to synthetics in many other areas over dino oil... I'll be running the synthetics. Sorry to bring up old outdated info, but I learned something. Dont rely on tech from "way back" when the products have changed significantly since then.

 

[PetesPonies]

I'm glad you brought it up. Its always time to learn. I learned more teaching than I ever learned as a student.

 

[Brother]

I learned more teaching than I ever learned as a student.

One of the signs of a good teacher.

 

[xjwmx]

Pyrocentric, I've been using 15w40 Rotella the last couple of winters without any clatter. I've run it for the last 2000 mi in temps ranging from the 80s to the 30s. I cannot guarantee it's a good weight for the 80s! But I wanted to be able to start the bike in the 30s

But it's not far from the factory recommended year-round weight of 20w40. I wonder how synths stand on zinc and how necessary it is and if rotella has substituted something in its place that serves the purpose maybe?

 

[PHeller]

So are you guys just using 5w40 auto synthetic? Or moto synthetic?

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[TeeCat]

PHeller, in my case, I'm using moto synth. It's formulation for wet clutch performance is what convinced me that it would be at least safe, if not preferable.

TC

 

[pyrocentric]

I too ran Rotella 15W-40 conventional last winter with no problem, other than a little thick when cold. I may go back to that.

I'm running a synth designed for turbo diesels, according to the bottle. Like I said, when it gets hot it's not so good.

I'd like to get a synth to work well. It's a pain to wait a while for the bike to warm up in winter instead of just jumping on and going, but it is what it is I guess.

 

[XSLeo]

PHeller, A 5w40 is too light an oil. Even a 10w40 is light. multi viscosity oils are the first number oil with additives to make it act like the second number. 5w40 is a 5 weight oil with additives to act like a 40 when hot.
Some synth oils can be rated as a multi oil because the oilan flow like a light oil when cold but be a heavy oil. Amsoil 20w50 can be used in the transmission of a Harley because of this, it's a 50w oil that can handle the needs of the tranmission but still flows like a 20w oil for a cold engine.
Look at the 5w40 bottle, does it have a star burst on it with the words energy saving, if so your clutch won't like the additives that make it energy saving.
Most car oils are not tested to work with a wet clutch, The heavier oils like 20w50 work ok. If you want to run a lighter oil get one thats motorcycle specific. They will have more of what the engine needs and good for the clutch.
Leo

 

[PHeller]

So the next question would be:

What is the cheapest thick synthetic oil and where could we get it?

 

[xjwmx]

^ And there are semi-synthetics too...


My latest question is if the second no. is the operating temp number, why would 10w40 or even 0w40 be too thin if 20w40 is the factory recommendation?