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oil filter

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by inxs, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. Even with 40 weight race oil the screens are OK so long as the engine is not revved too much while the oil is cold. A reasonably gentle warm up over a few minutes should do the trick and it has the benefit of also allowing the other engine components to get up to temperature and assume their running clearances.
     
    MaxPete, gggGary and motorbikerx like this.
  2. funky

    funky XS650 Junkie

    Howard rebuilt my engiine and i opted for the sump convertion fits a standard hi flow Awesome
     
  3. Spockwerks

    Spockwerks NAMAZU Pez de Terremoto

    The prototypes are some twenty years ago. Epoxy holds together dissimilar metals like Brass/Aluminum, Steel/Brass. Gave a lot of thought to side clearance issues before cutting a notch for the hose in the case cover. That required plugging a small but awkwardly shaped hole with Epoxy. Before using any kind of paint or adhesive on aluminum you need to sweat the oil from it because aluminum is semi-permeable to petroleum. Give the cases a good detergent wash in HOT water, then roast them in the oven at about 400* F for about an hour. Time & temp are not critical but do not exceed 500* or the possibility of warping does exis Another view of Drillway Plug and Hose Notch.JPG Checking the Clearence Again.JPG Clearence view of Cover 1.JPG Final clearence check for cover 2.JPG Hose Relief Notch and Oil Drillway Plug.JPG One Possibility for hose routing when I Swore by Fram Filters. Now I swear AT Them..JPG Another view of Cover 1.JPG Primary Installation of cover 1.JPG Prototypical Oil Filter Cover 1.JPG Prototypical Oil Filter Cover 2.JPG Prototypical Oil Filter Relief Notch.JPG Testing Clearence Cover 2.JPG Prototypical Oil Filter Cover 1.JPG Another view of Cover 1.JPG t.
     
  4. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    This is something I've been wanting to do for a long time: Porthole Relief Mod.

    The outlet port of the side filter's cavity is an 8mm hole, with a sharp edge.
    XS1B-SideFilterPorts01.jpg

    There's enuff room to open it up to about 8.8mm, and chamfer the edge.
    Not shown, the outlet side of the filter and gasket are port-matched.
    XS1B-SideFilterPorts02.jpg

    And, this part really bugs me. The inlet port to the filter chamber also has sharp edges, and it is very close to the filter element. A lot of streaming oil flows out this port, focused directly onto a small part of the filter.
    XS1B-SideFilterPorts03.jpg
    There's plenty of metal there to allow relieving the port's discharge opening.
    XS1B-SideFilterPorts04.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
    MaxPete, YamadudeXS650C and gggGary like this.
  5. Spockwerks

    Spockwerks NAMAZU Pez de Terremoto

    2M,
    Those are 3 BIG reasons I went to a remote spin-on filter. The passageway from pump chamber to filter box is a rather convoluted collection of intersecting drillways. The oil follows a tortuous path, directional changes tighter than 90* reveal someone's knowledge of hydraulic flow (NOT hydraulic pressure) to be quite weak. The ends of these passages are plugged by an aluminum cork secured with epoxy. Drill and tap them with 6mmX1.0 or similar then you can pull them out. Inside find angles and edges sharp enough to cut a finger, but they succumb easily to a moto tool. Relax those restrictive bends, get some aluminum rod from hardware, auto parts, metal wholesaler, etc. to close them back up with heat, then epoxy.
    If you like the remote filter plan you can bypass the whole cluster fuck by tapping for 3/8"NPT and screw in a 3/8"hose fitting. You can see by my prototype I cut a disc from a sheet of 1/2" aluminum and used a couple of brass fittings I had laying around the shop.
    Final version is tapped directly into the small filter cover, nothing sticks out in harms way but you have to cut a notch in the case cover to accommodate the plumbing. That, in turn, will expose a small hole easily patched with epoxy. Keep the epoxy handy because the back side of that small filter cover will crack on the thin webbing when you thread it. I know it sounds kinda funky but it's held up for 50,000mi. and 20yrs.
     
  6. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    20,413
    12,648
    813
    I finally had one of my patched filters give out, but it wasn't the patch. It developed a new tear kind of next to it, on the backside of the element opposite from the pointed area that usually splits. Maybe it's time to retire this one, lol.
     
    gggGary and weekendrider like this.
  7. Spockwerks

    Spockwerks NAMAZU Pez de Terremoto

    Correction, those fittings should be 1/8"PT to the engine case and filter cover. The prototype used 3/8"PT because that is what I had laying around.
     
    gggGary likes this.
  8. gggGary

    gggGary I'm listening, change my mind XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Sometime deep in the bowels of last winter I did a bunch of filter repairs with stainless mesh and original formula JB weld. Also shown a couple of my previous solvent can sheet metal welded on repairs. Used two of the JB & mesh so far, won't have a chance to inspect for a bit yet. DSCN6509.JPG DSCN6510.JPG
     
    robinc, MaxPete and TwoManyXS1Bs like this.
  9. Signal

    Signal XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    gggGary, up until now I have soldered some copper sheet over the torn sections but I like your idea of stainless mesh. What gauge /grade of mesh have you used?
     
  10. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Post #238?
     
    gggGary likes this.
  11. Signal

    Signal XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    Thanks 2M
     
    gggGary likes this.
  12. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I must say that this is a very interesting thread (hydraulics are my "thang") - and I sure like the idea of better oil cleanliness for the XS650, but some of the solutions seem pretty fragile to me (the filter on the bottom sump plate of the engine for one). It is a clever design, very convenient for servicing and I'm sure that it works fine - unless you whack a chunk of rock on the road, or a piece of wood, or a pothole, or a curb....and then all of your oil will disappear within a few seconds. To each his/her own.

    One good thing in our favour is that with very few exceptions, just about everything that rotates inside the XS650 engine is rolling on ball or roller bearings and these devices are tremendously tolerant of oil problems. They aren't immune to failure from dirty oil or no oil, but they are extremely tough and given the oil "filtration" scheme that MamaYama designed into these engines, that is a goooood thing.

    I'll close by pointing out that the other key function of engine oil is to carry away heat and that is not nearly as much a function of oil cleanliness as the lubrication of closely fitted journal bearings (as found in most multicylinder Hondas for example). I certainly do not condone running any engine out of oil, but the biggest danger in allowing the oil level in an XS650 to drop too low is that the engine will not have an important means of rejecting heat. That is why I got one of dogbunnys thermometer dipsticks for each of my 650s.

    Anyhow - keep on checking that oil folks - it is important for several reasons!

    Pete
     
    yamahama and gggGary like this.
  13. hotdog

    hotdog XS650 Guru

    My latest take on filtering the oil in the venerable xs650...

    Previously I had built a spin-on sump filter (sump plate) for my engine, however, a couple of things did not sit well with me on that design

    1. The ground clearance and the possibility to strike the filter housing
    2. The only filters I could find in a lower profile for that application were from more modern sports bikes and all had ADBV's installed - not my preference for a filter on the suction side of an oil pump as the flow becomes limited unless there is enough suction to lift the ADBV off its seat, not really in the design brief of the xs's oil pump.
    Since I have done away with the starter motor I went about designing my own filter adaptor that mounts into the starter spigot and that could hold a spin on filter cartridge.

    I chose to use a filter from an EVO Harley motor for a couple of reasons -
    1. I already have an EVO HD and have the required filters on-hand
    2. They have no ADBV so flow without restriction on the suction circuit.
    3. While not filtering to the levels of more modern spin-on cartridges, they still filter to ~ 30 microns, somewhat better than the standard gauze in the xs engine.
    4. An increase in oil capacity by ~ 250ml
    5. Its size allows fitment into the starter void and the ability to spin-on/off in situ.
    6. Price for replacement filters cartridges is around $10 AUD or $8 USD
    7. Personal preference - I dislike the standard strainer and actually like to filter my oil (cue violins from the "Yamaha knows best" crowd).

    As a matter of design, the oil supply from the filter adaptor has to run to a custom sump plate via a piece of 1/2" oil line, which then obviously feeds the pump. The mounting boss of the adaptor is sealed with a Viton o-ring in the starter spigot. Additionally, stainless hardware was utilized to mount both the adaptor and sump plate.
    I don't have any photos of when I was making the adaptor but will upload if it is removed for any reason.

    This photo shows the adaptor mounted to the two inner-most starter mounting bosses and the filter installed as well as the transfer line.

    IMAG1499.jpg

    Custom mounting plate with flush designed bolts and drain.

    IMAG1500.jpg

    View of filter, adaptor, and transfer line.

    IMAG1501.jpg

    No loss of ground clearance

    IMAG1504.jpg

    Sump plate

    IMAG1502.jpg
    Sump plate and transfer line.

    IMAG1503.jpg
    I was thinking about having a small run of these machined up via CNC but am not sure if it is an item that is both needed or would sell...

    I'll update some of these photos to my "long rod motor" thread when I can.

    Ciao
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  14. Motorbreath22

    Motorbreath22 XS650 Enthusiast


    I was just kicking around the idea of installing a filter where my starter was. So you modified the starter mount to take a threaded filter? I was thinking of having a filter head there and running an intake and return line out of the sump plate. Do you think its just as good collecting oil from the starter hole instead of the lowest point at the sump plate? Thats a clean set up on your bike and I agree about it being a bad idea to reduce ground clearance with a spin on filter at the sump plate.
     
  15. hotdog

    hotdog XS650 Guru

    MB22, I believe there will be no issues drawing oil from the crankcases in that location and risking starvation of oil to the pump. Additionally, correct crankcase oil level is well above the suction take-off point for the oil pump in my design.
    It is a design that I have been wanting to build for several years after seeing one similar on "thexscafe" blog (before photobucket ruined that great resource) which utilized an enclosed BMW 2-peice type oil filter in a housing that located and drew oil from the starter spigot. I believe that application was for an xs650 sidecarcross outfit - so a racing application which would have been stringently tested.

    With my set-up using a spin-on cartridge it eliminates the need of opening up a housing to change/inspect a paper element.

    Regards
     
  16. Motorbreath22

    Motorbreath22 XS650 Enthusiast


    Yeah I got the idea from thexscafe as well. I think I'm gonna see about doing something like this within the next year. Let me know if you end up producing anything to sell. I might be in the market if I haven't rigged something up myself.
     
    gggGary likes this.
  17.  
  18. sadly with photobuckets demise theres no pix anymore
     
  19. plattey

    plattey XS650 Addict

    Clean setup! Have you thought of using stainless braided an line for better protection against road debris?
     
  20. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Speaking of stainless steel mesh filters, this outfit in Colorado caught my eye:

    http://kandpengineering.com/

    KP-OilFilter01.jpg

    A couple of excerpts of interest:

    The K&P Engineering filter element is made from medical grade, type 304 stainless steel micronic filter cloth to provide unmatched protection against oil contamination and resultant engine damage. A one inch square of this material flows an incredible 1.9 gallons of oil per minute at only 1 PSI pump pressure.

    - How does this type of filtration compare to paper oil filters?

    We use ASTMF316 testing procedures which eliminate many of the user variables found in the SAE procedures. Basically, the filter media is pressurized from one side, and when the media starts passing particles, that is the micron rating. We sent filter media from several common brands of paper filters to the lab to be run through the ASTM test. We sent the media to the lab with no names, just numbers for identification so they wouldn’t have any idea what brand filter they were testing. The results for the paper filters ranged from 48 microns for the best filter to over 300 microns for the worst filter. Our tests were right in line with other testing results we have researched that have paper media filters passing particles anywhere between 50 and 90 microns. What does this mean? Paper filters are rated on averages, percentages of efficiency (also known as beta ratios) and multiple passes, so a 10 micron rated paper filter (as advertised on the packaging) may be letting particles 50 microns and larger through. The medical grade stainless steel cloth that we use is consistent across the entire media surface and is rated at 35 microns, meaning nothing larger than 35 microns should pass through the material. The bottom line is we meet or exceed the filtration performance of OEM filters, eliminating any warranty issues.

    We have run static pressure tests between our filters and paper filters for an identical application. For the same sized filters, our stainless steel micronic filter consistently flowed over 7 times more oil for the same time period than did the paper filter (tests were run at 68 degree ambient temperature).

    They offer a small filter for the Yamaha dirtbikes.

    KP-OilFilter02.jpg

    This #2153 filter is just slightly smaller in diameter than our XS650 side filter.
    The red filter in this pic is the paper equivalent of the #2153.

    KP-OilFilter03.jpg

    Just thinkin' out loud and sharing.
    I wonder what it would take for them to make OUR side filters...
     
    MrBultaco, robinc and Jim like this.

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