a question of handling....

[Bob Kelly III]

I've recently seen a few bikes with smaller than stock rims on the front of XS650's
my question is ...does this improve handling in the corners ? or is it just for looks ?
.... I would like my bike to handle like the Triumps of old, and their rake and trail were diferent than these XS650's so unless I chop the neck off the frame and re weld it there isn't much I can do to make it want to turn into the corner for you ... that I am aware of anyway....
putting on a smaller diameter front wheel should move the trail back a bit but I wonder if it would be enough ?
I noticed Halfmile's beautiful build has a smaller front tire, and I am wondering if that is all it takes to make the bike handle better ?
.....
I'm just wondering about the steering here guys... I know there is allot more to all around handling
shocks, forks , swing-arm etc,etc,..... the steering part is what interests this old fart ! LOL
....
Bob.........

 

[fredintoon]

I've recently seen a few bikes with smaller than stock rims on the front of XS650's
my question is ...does this improve handling in the corners ? or is it just for looks ?
.... I would like my bike to handle like the Triumps of old, and their rake and trail were diferent than these XS650's so unless I chop the neck off the frame and re weld it there isn't much I can do to make it want to turn into the corner for you ... that I am aware of anyway....
putting on a smaller diameter front wheel should move the trail back a bit but I wonder if it would be enough ?
I noticed Halfmile's beautiful build has a smaller front tire, and I am wondering if that is all it takes to make the bike handle better ?
.....I'm just wondering about the steering here guys... I know there is allot more to all around handling
shocks, forks , swing-arm etc,etc,..... the steering part is what interests this old fart ! LOL
....Bob.........

Hi Bob,
the Triumphs had the same wheel sizes as an XS650 Standard and I don't remember their frame geometry being all that different.
The best way to get Triumph-style handling (no effin' way you'll ever get Norton featherbed-style handling) on your XS650 is to make it 100lbs lighter.
My sons' Honda VF750F bikes had 16" front wheels and handled like the racebikes they were cloned from but their 16" front wheels were an integral part of their frame design. Plain ol' putting a smaller than normal front wheel in a bike is a different deal altogether.
Let's look at what happens as an XS650's front wheel diameter gets smaller.
The front drops so the effective headrace angle gets steeper which reduces the steering trail which quickens the steering.
So yes, your bike will steer quicker.
Will it handle like a Triumph? No effin' way.
You be careful what you do, eh?

 

[Bob Kelly III]

LOL No doubt Fred ! ....
Yah as you say it's gott'a loose about 100 lbs to be anywhere close to the Triumps of old , but the old ones I really liked were built with a steeper head angle than the XS650 by I think 2 degrees but I am not positive... maybe as much as 4 degrees
old BSA machines had the same head angle and they leaned into the turn and turned the handle bars for you when riding ...
they were a pleasure to ride.... the XS650 reminds me of a Honda in it's refrigerator like handling in the front end... I have the head bearings as loose as I dare go already and that did help quite a bit... but it's still not enough....
I think a next size smaller Rim laced on the front with better tires all around would probably be enough to get that ride I am after !
that shouldn't be all that expensive to do and I could just compensate for the drop in the front by lowering the rear a bit....
but that may defeet the entire purpose ! LOL
.......I'm just batting ideas around Fred .... it's not like I'm going to tear the bike down in SUMMER !!!!! Ack !!!!
....
Bob.......

 

[grizld1]

Bob, I've posted on practical chassis mods to improve XS650 handling many times, based on experience, not speculation. So has gggGary. You don't need to do anything drastic. Part of what you're feeling in the steering is a result of a top-heavy motor; that heavy camshaft sitting way up high is part of the problem. You can't completely eliminate that effect, but you can make some big improvements. If you get the rear end up, steering will become lighter and much more linear. Stock shocks are ~12.75" eye-to-eye. Even a 1/2" lift will make a noticeable difference, and a little more is better. Re. weight, yeah, you're not going to get down to Brit weight, but you can shed a lot with little effort; check the Tech section, we had a good thread on that topic. FYI I use 13.25" custom shocks from Works Performance, fork clamps dropped 1/2" on tubes, 2.15x18 front rim with 100/80/18 Bridgestone BT45, OE 2.15/18 rear rim with 110/90/18 BT45, Race Tech cartridge emulators and 0.80 kg/mm springs in the forks, plastic front fender with Daytona fork stabilizer, aftermarket seat with plastic pan, plastic chain guard, light weight Brembo floating rotor, light weight aftermarket turn signals on magnesium alloy brackets, aftermarket single wall pipes with Emgo short megaphone mufflers, aftermarket aluminum tail light, and a few other tweaks. Total weight reduction is ~50 lbs. and the look is near stock except for black paint with silver gray stripes and tuning fork.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

Wow thanks Griz ! that's allot of good info there !
shaving 50lbs off the bike would no doubt make it feel better too !!!! those pipes is what I'ed love to have !
i thought of dropping the triple tree clamps by 1" or so but I was unsure about ground clearance around here.... what's needed and what isn't ... I dropped the clamps on my 700 honda shadow and wound up bottoming out over speed bumps... which was a surprise !
not a good thing at all ....HAHAHA!
Looks like I have some reading to do !
thanks !
Bob............

 

[TimeMachine]

Grizld1, those are very interesting mods. Sounds great ! BT45's huh ? Thinkin about those .. could you post a bike pic ? Thx -RT

 

[grizld1]

Here ya go. Some things don't show up well; the ignition is completely isolated from the rest of the electrics, for example: accessory and alternator switch is in the headlight shell, and the switch on the right below the tank powers the ignition. Turn signals were fitted after the photo was shot. BT45 tires were also installed after this shot, tires shown are Shinko 712. There are some detail shots on my profile page.