Clutch not disengaging

[Ccanady]

As the title states, I can’t get my clutch to disengage. When I pull the clutch; it moves. However it’s only VERY slightly.

Just wanted to get some ideas if any of what my issue could be.

Things to note...I’ve just finished a full rebuild and have replaced clutch, seals, clutch plates, clutch cable, springs and restored worm gear components...

I’m thinking there’s something stopping my push rod.

Any ideas?

 

[Ccanady]

So I’m at a loss. I’m beginning to think it’s my clutch plates. I’ve done a little searching and it seems that some year models require you only put 6 plates in and others require 7? I’ve also noted that the length of my push rod that’s not inside is 1.75 inches.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

... I’ve also noted that the length of my push rod that’s not inside is 1.75 inches.

Should have about 1-15/16" (1.94") of exposed pushrod. Might be missing an internal ball (5/16").

You may also be experiencing the typical "stuck clutch".

Clutch pushrod travel, measured at the worm actuator, should be at least 0.050". That would be at least 15° of worm rotation.

Clutch worm rotation gauge

 

[xjwmx]

Check a picture to make sure the worm gear lever is in the right place.

 

[Ccanady]

Should have about 1-15/16" (1.94") of exposed pushrod. Might be missing an internal ball (5/16").

You may also be experiencing the typical "stuck clutch".

Clutch pushrod travel, measured at the worm actuator, should be at least 0.050". That would be at least 15° of worm rotation.

Clutch worm rotation gauge

In order to check if this is the problem; I’ve extracted the first rod and ball but I don’t have a magnet strong enough to extract the other rod (it’s right at the edge of the seal). Any idea how I could get it out? It’s a new seal and I don’t want to have to pull it out and replace it just to check to make sure I have the other ball. And I really don’t want to take the right side case apart...are those my only two options at this point or is there another trick to getting them out?

 

[Ccanady]

Check a picture to make sure the worm gear lever is in the right place.

Checked and rechecked

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

... I don’t have a magnet strong enough to extract the other rod (it’s right at the edge of the seal). Any idea how I could get it out?

Member DPS650rider used superglue.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs650-clutch-pushrod-experiment-tidbits.32267/page-5#post-347148

 

[gggGary]

thinking out loud; a piece of tubing on a mighty vac brake bleeder?

 

[Ccanady]

Member DPS650rider used superglue.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs650-clutch-pushrod-experiment-tidbits.32267/page-5#post-347148

I’ve actually thought of this.

 

[5twins]

Yes, it sounds like you're missing one of the balls. Since you found the one just after the short pushrod, it's probably the one at the far end by the clutch. You probably won't be able to access or check for that one from the left side.

Yes, there were several different clutch configurations used on these. Plate thicknesses differed as well as the number of plates. We would need to know the year of the clutch assembly to tell you what it should have in it.

But, if your 1.75" of exposed pushrod measurement is correct and accurate, the math isn't adding up right for a missing ball. I've measured several in MM and always came up with 48 to 49mm. That jives with 2M's 1.94" (49.3mm). The balls are 5/16" or about 8mm. Your 1.75" converts to about 44.5mm so another 8mm ball would have your rod sticking out 52.5mm, more than normal. An extra 3mm thick clutch plate might be the issue instead. That would move your rod in 3mm, and without it, the rod would stick out 47.5mm, very close to the 48mm I've measured on some in the past. So, like I said, you need to tell us what year clutch you're working with.

 

[Ccanady]

Yes, it sounds like you're missing one of the balls. Since you found the one just after the short pushrod, it's probably the one at the far end by the clutch. You probably won't be able to access or check for that one from the left side.

Yes, there were several different clutch configurations used on these. Plate thicknesses differed as well as the number of plates. We would need to know the year of the clutch assembly to tell you what it should have in it.

But, if your 1.75" of exposed pushrod measurement is correct and accurate, the math isn't adding up right for a missing ball. I've measured several in MM and always came up with 48 to 49mm. That jives with 2M's 1.94" (49.3mm). The balls are 5/16" or about 8mm. Your 1.75" converts to about 44.5mm so another 8mm ball would have your rod sticking out 52.5mm, more than normal. An extra 3mm thick clutch plate might be the issue instead. That would move your rod in 3mm, and without it, the rod would stick out 47.5mm, very close to the 48mm I've measured on some in the past. So, like I said, you need to tell us what year clutch you're working with.

I’m working with an 81 clutch rebuilt with a mikesxs kit

 

[5twins]

That would be a 6 plate clutch. You didn't put in 7 friction plates, did you?

 

[Ccanady]

I can’t say what I put in....but I CAN say, I put them ALL in.

I figured the kit was the same for all models and never read until reciently that different models required a different number of plates. I guess I’ll be tearing it down tomorrow...

 

[5twins]

Show us the kit you bought.

 

[5twins]

I only see one clutch kit on Mike's site and it contains 7 friction plates and 6 steel plates. If you put them all in then you've actually got 2 extra plates in there, a steel and a friction. The steels are about 1.4mm thick so that combined with an extra 3mm friction plate would make the math work out. Remove those 2 extra plates and your clutch pushrod will stick out 4.4mm more, which puts it right about where it should be, around 49mm.

 

[Ccanady]

I only see one clutch kit on Mike's site and it contains 7 friction plates and 6 steel plates. If you put them all in then you've actually got 2 extra plates in there, a steel and a friction. The steels are about 1.4mm thick so that combined with an extra 3mm friction plate would make the math work out. Remove those 2 extra plates and your clutch pushrod will stick out 4.4mm more, which puts it right about where it should be, around 49mm.

I’m not sure which one I bought. Either way my plan is to open up the side to figure this thing out. Once I’m in, I’ll take measurements and let you know how many plates I have. I wanna say it’s 7 plates though.

 

[Ccanady]

Okay, so I’ve figured out an interesting piece of my puzzle. Evidently in an effort to add more weight reduction I decided to replace 2 of my bearings with what looks like steering ball bearings (which are much smaller).

My attention to detail switch must of been off that day.

Anyway now that I’ve figured that out, I need to confirm that I’m using the correct amount of plates. I’m attaching some pictures of my clutch basket and clutch plates I had installed. Any advice?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Sure looks like too many plates to me.
Here's what the exposed end of the hub should look like.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

... in an effort to add more weight reduction...

Have you considered skipping lunch,

or take out the spare change in your pocket?

 

[Ccanady]

So if I remove one steel plate and one friction plate this is what it looks like.
(Edit: I found my old clutch plates hanging on the wall and they counted: 6 friction plates and 5 steel plates)

Also I’ve looked into just converting to a long rod setup instead of ordering new balls. From whatI have read, that would mean I would have (from left to right) a ball in the worm gear, long rod, another ball, and finally the flat ended push rod...that right?