Stator is "probably" fine, cheap meters have tough time with low ohm readings. probably more important they are all identical and there are no shorts.
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Expanded charging system guide (In progress)
- Thread starter gggGary
- Start date
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- Tags
- electrical how to technical
yamapag
XS650 Member
so then im at a huge loss. I have a new rotor a new reg/rec. the bike will start and run till the battery goes dead. the only thing I can think next is to re wire the bike
yamapag
XS650 Member
my co worker had a digital meter that im going to take home tonight and check with that as well
you need to post a picture of both your stator and your regulator so that we can see what type of charging system you have and help you.
Its clearly a non standard system and you may have mis-matched or incorrect parts /assembly etc.
its just guesswork for us without pictures.
Its clearly a non standard system and you may have mis-matched or incorrect parts /assembly etc.
its just guesswork for us without pictures.
yamapag
XS650 Member
I understand what ur saying. its just hard to post pics when ur not computer smart lol
its pretty straightforward and you will need to learn how sometime if you need to ask for help and advice .
If you have a PC then open Microsoft paint and browse your hard drive for the image you need.
Open the image in Paint.
If the image is too large to view then select VIEW and zoom out until you can see all of your image.
Select HOME
CROP your image if necessary to focus on your subject .
Select RESIZE
Select PIXELS
Enter 750 in the 'horizontal' box .
Save the file with a suitable file name on your DESKTOP or somewhere it is easy to find.
Now post a new message on XS650.com and at the bottom of your post select MANAGE ATTACHMENTS.
Select BROWSE
Search your hard drive for the image you just created and select it.
Select UPLOAD.
Wait a few seconds until your image uploads then submit your post Voila!
Now if I can spend 1/4 of an hour typing out and posting this guide for you hopefully you can spend the same amount of time and have a go uploading an image or two
Or you could just grab any 12 year old and they could do it quicker than both of us lol
If you have a PC then open Microsoft paint and browse your hard drive for the image you need.
Open the image in Paint.
If the image is too large to view then select VIEW and zoom out until you can see all of your image.
Select HOME
CROP your image if necessary to focus on your subject .
Select RESIZE
Select PIXELS
Enter 750 in the 'horizontal' box .
Save the file with a suitable file name on your DESKTOP or somewhere it is easy to find.
Now post a new message on XS650.com and at the bottom of your post select MANAGE ATTACHMENTS.
Select BROWSE
Search your hard drive for the image you just created and select it.
Select UPLOAD.
Wait a few seconds until your image uploads then submit your post Voila!
Now if I can spend 1/4 of an hour typing out and posting this guide for you hopefully you can spend the same amount of time and have a go uploading an image or two
Or you could just grab any 12 year old and they could do it quicker than both of us lol
After a bit of phone troubleshooting it appears an ebay voltage regulator wasn't. Removed the voltage regulator green wire and grounded the green brush and it started charging.
No markings at all on the regulator so who knows if it is/was the correct regulator for a field excited alternator? Guess I hadn't looked for a while, the late model regulators aren't cheap $100 to 110 plus shipping.
It's either that or convert the wiring to use a (break the hot side) style regulator, which might be what he has.
No markings at all on the regulator so who knows if it is/was the correct regulator for a field excited alternator? Guess I hadn't looked for a while, the late model regulators aren't cheap $100 to 110 plus shipping.
It's either that or convert the wiring to use a (break the hot side) style regulator, which might be what he has.
johnwaters
XS650 New Member
I had similar problems with a cheap regulator from China. Bought this one from M&P in Wales, UK http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130799604070 and it now works fine on my 1973 TX650 without un-grounding the brushes.
Looks great Johnwaters. To prevent mis-ordering; that is a voltage regulator for an early 70-79 switch the hot brush system, NOT for a late 80 up switch the ground brush system.
johnwaters
XS650 New Member
Yes, it's the early system where the hot brush is switched.
yamapag
XS650 Member
thanks ggggGary. I hope to b riding soon
Great troubleshooting Guide, thank you Gggary. I'm using my Radio Shack multi meter and have performed all the tests. I *think* I did them right. Brushes are 9/16 to 5/8 inches.
Still no charging, perhaps it's the reg/rectifier? Before I bust a nut on a $110 reg/rec I would be grateful for some feedback, opinions from the forum on the following test results:
1) pass, new Shorai battery holds 13 Volts. Trickle charging it to keep fresh while try to get charging system to work.
2) Slap test - Fail.
3) no jump in voltage at battery when revving motor. Is this good or bad? I put an alligator clip on the green wire connector (connector unplugged) and ground it to the engine, did I do right?
4) Pass. Same 13 voltage at brown wire brush as at battery.
5) Pass. Got 5.0 - 5.2 ohms. One reading was 4.9.
6) i think I have 6-7 AC volts on all 3 white wire combos, which is low compared to guide reco. My multi meter setting was on "AC 200v". The reading was actually displayed as 0.6 or 0.7. but not sure I am interpreting correctly.
7) stator winding test. Pass I think. My ohm readings were 0.7 - 0.8. This is Higher than in the guide recommended range. Is it ok if higher? I do not have a safety relay (removed).
What would you do next?
Thanks to all, any help is very much appreciated.
Does anyone know the size of the missing screw in my picture? I think it's just a fastener for the brush holder - and doesn't factor into my charging problem?
Still no charging, perhaps it's the reg/rectifier? Before I bust a nut on a $110 reg/rec I would be grateful for some feedback, opinions from the forum on the following test results:
1) pass, new Shorai battery holds 13 Volts. Trickle charging it to keep fresh while try to get charging system to work.
2) Slap test - Fail.
3) no jump in voltage at battery when revving motor. Is this good or bad? I put an alligator clip on the green wire connector (connector unplugged) and ground it to the engine, did I do right?
4) Pass. Same 13 voltage at brown wire brush as at battery.
5) Pass. Got 5.0 - 5.2 ohms. One reading was 4.9.
6) i think I have 6-7 AC volts on all 3 white wire combos, which is low compared to guide reco. My multi meter setting was on "AC 200v". The reading was actually displayed as 0.6 or 0.7. but not sure I am interpreting correctly.
7) stator winding test. Pass I think. My ohm readings were 0.7 - 0.8. This is Higher than in the guide recommended range. Is it ok if higher? I do not have a safety relay (removed).
What would you do next?
Thanks to all, any help is very much appreciated.
Does anyone know the size of the missing screw in my picture? I think it's just a fastener for the brush holder - and doesn't factor into my charging problem?
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Nice description of what you have done and the results! That is so helpful.
"3) no jump in voltage at battery when revving motor. Is this good or bad? I put an alligator clip on the green wire connector (connector unplugged) and ground it to the engine, did I do right?"
OK Lets revisit this one; with the engine running and all connectors plugged in take your jumper with one end grounded to the engine and clip it to the brush with the green wire. Watch your voltage with the volt meter, see if it climbs above 14 volts at about 3000 rpm. If it does your fault probably lies with the regulator or a break in the green wire.
Also ohm your stator again check all the leads against a ground, you should get no reading, it should be open circuit to ground.
"3) no jump in voltage at battery when revving motor. Is this good or bad? I put an alligator clip on the green wire connector (connector unplugged) and ground it to the engine, did I do right?"
OK Lets revisit this one; with the engine running and all connectors plugged in take your jumper with one end grounded to the engine and clip it to the brush with the green wire. Watch your voltage with the volt meter, see if it climbs above 14 volts at about 3000 rpm. If it does your fault probably lies with the regulator or a break in the green wire.
Also ohm your stator again check all the leads against a ground, you should get no reading, it should be open circuit to ground.
Thanks gggGary! Great Guide, I know squat about this stuff but the guide was very helpful, thanks again for doing that.
Ah, now i get it. Clip it to the metal part of the brush that sits in the brush holder, next to green wire on stator. Repeat rev test, note results. I'll do this in the morning (kids asleep).
OK will do. Is a "no reading" a zero "0" on a digital multi-meter? I ask b/c sometimes i get a reading that looks like a backwards "L" and "o", or something like that. Is this Infinity? I'll look for my MM Manual
Ah, now i get it. Clip it to the metal part of the brush that sits in the brush holder, next to green wire on stator. Repeat rev test, note results. I'll do this in the morning (kids asleep).
OK will do. Is a "no reading" a zero "0" on a digital multi-meter? I ask b/c sometimes i get a reading that looks like a backwards "L" and "o", or something like that. Is this Infinity? I'll look for my MM Manual
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The meter; touch the leads together then apart that's what it should read between any white lead and the stator frame.
Check the fuse box carefully, if it hasn't been replaced yet, fuse holder metal falls apart from corrosion.
Like you say that missing screw is just to hold the assembly to the stator. There are several length screws used on the stator frame, put a long screw in a short hole and it will tear up a slip ring. Let us know how this goes for you?
Note; Yamapeg won when he got a new CORRECT VR but testing to know which part is bad is the only way to go!
Check the fuse box carefully, if it hasn't been replaced yet, fuse holder metal falls apart from corrosion.
Like you say that missing screw is just to hold the assembly to the stator. There are several length screws used on the stator frame, put a long screw in a short hole and it will tear up a slip ring. Let us know how this goes for you?
Note; Yamapeg won when he got a new CORRECT VR but testing to know which part is bad is the only way to go!
Thanks gggGary! Great Guide, I know squat about this stuff but the guide was very helpful, thanks again for doing that.
Ah, now i get it. Clip it to the metal part of the brush that sits in the brush holder, next to green wire on stator. Repeat rev test, note results. I'll do this in the morning (kids asleep).
OK will do. Is a "no reading" a zero "0" on a digital multi-meter? I ask b/c sometimes i get a reading that looks like a backwards "L" and "o", or something like that. Is this Infinity? I'll look for my MM Manual
GggGary - I ohmed the stator wires again and there is no resistance so that is what we want I believe.
Also retested step #3 as described; with jumper connected to green wire / brush and revving the engine the battery voltage jumped from 12.8 to 13.9 right off the bat. The green wire run from stator to reg/rec looks very sound, well protected. I will get my hands on a new Reg/rec and replace that unit.
Thanks for your help so far. Also a huge shout out to Rich / DaddyGcycles. Rich made a harness for me and has been holding my hand as I've been wiring up and testing my turn signals, headlight, brake light, battery and GROUNDS, as well as the charging system.
Again I can't thank you guys enough, this is a hobby for me and you boys make it fun instead of frustrating
I'll post up when I get the new reg/rec on board!
You might want to confirm the charging part of your harness is wired like this;
View attachment 34827
View attachment 34827
It is wired like that. But that brings up a question that was nagging me.
My alternator connector is plugged into a new TC Bros connector, which is then plugged into the reg/rec
When I was making my original connection to the TC Bros unit, 2 of the 3 white wires pulled out of their terminals. They were barely crimped.
So if the white wires are numbered 1,2,3 from left to right, numbers 1 and 2 fell out.
I soldered them to the terminals and inserted back into the plastic connector.
Does it matter if I put the #1 white wire into the #2 terminal and 2 into 1? Because they fell out without me seeing it I am not certain I now 1 in 1 and 2 in 2. You know what i mean?
My alternator connector is plugged into a new TC Bros connector, which is then plugged into the reg/rec
When I was making my original connection to the TC Bros unit, 2 of the 3 white wires pulled out of their terminals. They were barely crimped.
So if the white wires are numbered 1,2,3 from left to right, numbers 1 and 2 fell out.
I soldered them to the terminals and inserted back into the plastic connector.
Does it matter if I put the #1 white wire into the #2 terminal and 2 into 1? Because they fell out without me seeing it I am not certain I now 1 in 1 and 2 in 2. You know what i mean?
Doesn't matter, whites are interchangeable. If it mattered they would have colored markers.
