HELP with Crazy ass noise! VIDEO included

[imwastefull]

thanks gggGary and all you guys!

the whine doesn't change with the clutch in or at and it is certainly more than a dull roar. This whine would get so bad that at around 45-50 mph i couldn't even hear my straight pipe exhaust.

Peanut - yes the front guide is perfect and the tensioner guide was just a little rutted but not cracked or anything. The cam chain did show slight signs of wear... just a little fresh silver on some high spots on the chain. What in the world could it hit but the guides?

gggGary- how would i check to see if the stator is walking around or rubbing on some jazz?

thanks dudes!

 

[peanut]

t how would i check to see if the stator is walking around or rubbing on some jazz?

thanks dudes!

youll need to remove the cover and pull the rotor off with an extractor. The rotor is a hot favourite after the camchain.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-XS650-Rotor-Puller-Tool-Fits-All-Years-/350704706311?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51a7a12307&vxp=mtrhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-XS650-Rotor-Puller-Tool-Fits-All-Years-/350704706311?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51a7a12307&vxp=mtr

 

[imwastefull]

OK, so I've found this other thread. this fellow has the same noise. He replaced the chain guide, cam bearings and removed the starter gear all to no avail.

fuck.

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3126&highlight=engine+whine

 

[peanut]

OK, so I've found this other thread. this fellow has the same noise. He replaced the chain guide, cam bearings and removed the starter gear all to no avail.

fuck.

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3126&highlight=engine+whine

don't give up just yet. his bike may have had an entirely different problem.
Are you sure you didn't overtighten the camchain adjuster ? it does sound more like a noisy bearing than metal rubbing .

When did you last change your oil and filter ? you might find a clue in the oil or on the sump plug magnet or the filter mesh. You might have a blocked oilway somewhere leaving a bearing dry.

 

[paulpops55]

I had a 73 TX650 back in the 70's that bent the end of the crank where the starter gear was, making contact where it was "lobing". Ended up replacing the crank assembly. It started off as a soft whine and got worse the more I rode it.

 

[peanut]

reding through the link you provided it seems like there are two common sources .
1.) an over-tightened cam chain
2.) main bearings that start turning

if its the main bearings turning ,the grinding will ruin the cases in no time.

 

[Punkskalar]

I've had that exact same noise in one of my bikes before. It was a bone stock 650, and the crank had started to walk apart, and it was out of true. This did a number on the main bearings as well. When I split the cases, you could see where the flywheels were rubbing against the cases. Rebuilt the crank and it was good to go.

 

[peanut]

I've had that exact same noise in one of my bikes before. It was a bone stock 650, and the crank had started to walk apart, and it was out of true. This did a number on the main bearings as well. When I split the cases, you could see where the flywheels were rubbing against the cases. Rebuilt the crank and it was good to go.

hugh could you feel the crankshaft float at the rotor ?

I seem to remember someone had a whining noise last year that was worse when the bike was leant over but reduced when stood upright. Maybe it was the other way round ? Sounds like he may have had a similar problem

 

[Punkskalar]

I couldn't feel anything at all with the engine assembled. Between the camchain, the cases, and multiple bearings, it was hard to feel any slop. It was apparent when i disassembled it and tossed a dial indicator on it though...

If the OEM charging system has witness marks on it from hitting the alternator, that can be an indication that the crank is walking as well.

 

[imwastefull]

hey, thanks a ton Punkskalar. I'm going to tear into the motor a bit more tonight. Hey can you explain... what are the witness marks on the rotor/stator and what is a dial indicator?

sorry guys, i'm real familiar with engines and have always worked on my own bikes but this is the first time with dealing on a bottom end on my own.

I appreciate all your input!

 

[JP50515]

This is a dial indicator. It is used for many purposes, but one of the common ones being measuring flatness. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/MI...6NRA5&ef_id=B91QPOPShlMAAFMp:20130204225904:s

You essentially preload the indicator, zero out the dial so your needle is pointing at zero or whatever number you want really, and then you run it across the surface of whatever you are measuring, watching for variation/needle movement. The ones we use on a daily basis in the machine shop measure down to .001" (one thousandth of an inch) so each mark on the dial is movement of .001". I'm sure if you pull the crank and bring it to a machine shop with the haynes manual or other manual for reference they will be able to tell you if the crank is still true. That or i'm sure Hugh (punkskalar) would be more than willing to look at it if you sent it out to him at his shop.

 

[Punkskalar]

hey, thanks a ton Punkskalar. I'm going to tear into the motor a bit more tonight. Hey can you explain... what are the witness marks on the rotor/stator and what is a dial indicator?

sorry guys, i'm real familiar with engines and have always worked on my own bikes but this is the first time with dealing on a bottom end on my own.

I appreciate all your input!

You've got some googling to do

I wish I had all the time to explain it 100%, but basically you are looking for any indication that the rotor has made contact with the alternator (ie, witness marks)

Any scrapes, clean spots that don't belong, etc... Any evidence of contact.

As for the dial indicator, it is a measuring tool that you can clamp to a stand while the crank is on a set of V-Block and can measure the runout of the crank flywheels and shafts. You are looking for anything "Out of Round" - but if the bearings are shot, then you'll have to replace those first or you'll be chasing your tail... if it's the inside bearings on the crank, you'll be looking at a crank rebuild.

Also check for wear in the small ends of the rods (copper colored coating should be even and consistent) and check that the large ends are within 2mm of side-side play.

Look at the crank and see if you can see any gaps between the flywheels/bearings/rods/etc.. This will indicate that the crank is "walking" apart...

Good luck, and if you have any questions, put up pics and we'll go from there

 

[imwastefull]

UPDATE!

i got the jugs off and both side covers. Is it normal for your head and jugs to come off together? haha.

At any rate, as far as i can tell everything seems normal. I did find a hunk of metal in the bottom of the right side cover that appears to have broken off of the case (maybe). I checked the worm gear and tach drive. No signs of wear but that is near where the piece of case broke off.

Can i remove the worm gear? What about the gear inside the case? do i need them?

There also seemed to be just a little rubbing on the kicker shaft.

the cam had no play but the clutch basket shifted a little. normal?

Any suggestions? Where should i look for next? Should i investigate the starter gears that are slugged off?

peep some pics!

Also, what is to the left of my reg/rectifier? a generator? oil pump?

 

[Samuraiace]

The thing to the left of your regulator rectifier looks like where your electric starter went, there's a mikesxs block off plate installed in yours.

 

[imwastefull]

any suggestions for where to look for the source of the noise?

thanks dudes!

 

[gggGary]

Just free thinking here; grab both rod ends and spin the crank, see if you can hear or feel roughness. Two people might be a real help but a dowel (protect the journals!) through both con rods, maybe a wrench duct taped in the middle should let you pump and spin the crank pretty decent.

 

[XSLeo]

The reason your head and cylinders came off as a single unit is some one put the head gasket in with a very excessive amount of gasket sealer. Virtually gluing the head to the cylinders.
They will come apart with proper persuasion. A hardwood wedge carefully driven in at the head/cylinder joint should work. Using some thing of metal you can scratch or gouge the sealing surfaces. Careful is the key.
Leo

 

[gggGary]

+1 CAREFUL if you pry against an unsupported fin it will break without warning.

 

[imwastefull]

OK guys I have a couple significant Updates.

First of all, i cracked the shit out of my left side cover. I have no fucking clue how. all i did was take it off, remove my stator cover, look around and then bolt on my stator and cover and SOMEHOW my timing mark got under the lip of the cover and it cracked while tightening up.

Thing is, theres only 2 allen bolts holding on the rotor and i NEVER TOUCHED my timing mark. How in the hell did it move? What should i do?!!? haha.

Also, i put up a vid of the only evidence i could find of my engine whine. a very loose starter gear.

Please check the videos and pictures and help a brother out!

LINK TO VIDEO:

http://s83.beta.photobucket.com/user/imwastefull/media/20130207_165602_zpsfe63cf05.mp4.html

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[gggGary]

Edited because I reread the post above... The two philips screws hold the stator on. there is also a slot in the stator that engages a pin that sticks out of the crankcase. here;
View attachment 16089
If the stator slot isn't engaged on the pin the stator sits crooked, in your picture the rotor nut does not look centered in the stator hole... and that timing screw will stick up more than it should, tighten down the cover and crack. Also with the stator cocked the rotor hits it and makes ugly noise as it tries to lathe away metal. Pictures can lie but this looks real likely. One of the two cover alignment dowels is jsut below that crack also if the dowel didn't seat or was crooked that could also crack the cover when tightened.