How ridable is a 40- 45 deg rake ?

[johnpagn]

How ridable is a 40- 45 deg rake ?

I love the look of the Gordon Scott bike. I believe he used the stock triples and forks as I plan to.
I'm not sure about the trail on it and want something I can ride everywhere .
I'll be keeping the rear shocks so with weight on the bike the rake will be even higher on the road I would imagine.

What are ur thoughts ?

Also I'd love to hear from those who have ridden a bike with this set up.
Maybe even Gordon will chime in

 

[Teebs]

40* is pushing it without some modification to adjust trail with either raked trees or forks with rockers. The bike is still ride-able at 40* without any adjustments, but it's going to be a straight-line cruiser for sure, and you're at the boundaries of decent handling.

One thing to keep in mind is that everything about a scoot can affect handling. So, Scott's bike with 40* of rake will certainly handle differently than your "soft-tail" with 40*. Another thing to keep in mind: 4" of trail may handle fine while 4.25" MAY [edit] put you in the ditch. Since each chopper is built differently, unless it's a custom scoot built on the same jig, each one is going to have a unique trail threshold.

45* is a lot of rake. It would be completely unride-able without raked trees or rockers to reduce the trail. Not to mention the stock legs wouldn't be nearly long enough.

I've ridden a lot of scoots with the rake in the 40*-45* range. The ones that handle the best have some offset in those areas. My pan has 50* of rake on a springer with raked trees. It handles like a dream... and turns around like a cruise ship.

 

[johnpagn]

I appreciate ur response Teebs. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm after.
Off set trees would be great but as far as I know for an sx there are none available. Sure I could find a machinist or swap to Harley parts but I'm a lil light on cash so I'm not going that way with this build.

So here's my next question,
With stock front end and 4" extended swing arm ( havent figured it all out yet but this is what I'm planning to do)
How far can I take the rake and still keep things within reason to ride it ?

 

[Teebs]

I wouldn't be afraid to take it out to 40* degrees as long as you realize that it's going to handle like a chopper. It might be more unstable at slow speeds (harder to balance) and it will definitely respond slower at high speed (ever see somebody on a chopper going fast into a turn and the scoot seems to just keep going straight?), but I doubt you wouldn't be able to handle it. You would be fine at 37 or 38 degrees. As I said, it's a bit of a guessing game based on the type of bike and what exactly is being done to it. In the end, I'd say go for it, but give it it's due respect when you first start riding it, and test it's limits more cautiously than a stock bike. There are plenty of scoots out there with 40* of rake and 5 or more inches of trail, they just aren't threading the twisties at 75mph...

 

[rustynail99]

wait! what?! Teebs, you have a pan? as in PANHEAD?! lol i would love to see a pic of that beast! i bet its badass!!! i didnt think you were a Harley guy!

 

[shaas]

Also, bear in mind that a telescopic front end, when raked out changes the load on the tubes dramatically and they will not compress like they did when at a stock angle. They will flex more and the male slider will wear more quickly.

As far as ride-ability goes, increased trail = increased stability at speed, decreased low speed turning stability and the wheel will want to flop.

I built HD chops long before they were trendy and ran up to 15" over springers with just under 40 degrees rake. Bouncey bouncy!

 

[gordonscott]

How ridable is a 40- 45 deg rake ?

I love the look of the Gordon Scott bike. I believe he used the stock triples and forks as I plan to.
I'm not sure about the trail on it and want something I can ride everywhere .
I'll be keeping the rear shocks so with weight on the bike the rake will be even higher on the road I would imagine.

What are ur thoughts ?

Also I'd love to hear from those who have ridden a bike with this set up.
Maybe even Gordon will chime in

Hi John, Yes my bikes rake was at 40deg. I did use the stock length forks. With that said if I did not use the tall Firestone tires the frame would be low to the ground, 3 ½"to be exact. That bike was built to use those specific tires knowing that I would gain some height with them putting the frame height where I wanted it. Teebs is right about the 40-45deg is about as far as you want to go, otherwise you're looking at another type of front end because of the reasons Shaas has said with the tele forks. They won't compress properly. Also the front end is heavy from side to side while parked or going real slow but it never bothered me. One thing I will have to disagree about is how it handled, it was great! It was not hard in the turns and handled like a go-kart LOL.... Remember I'm not comparing it to modern bikes but MUCH better then you would think. Just don't go doing figure 8's with it at 5mph and it will be fine. The bike was actually fun in the corners

 

[johnpagn]

Kool Kool, I'm digg'n the look of those old skool tires. I'v been pricing them. Now they'r on my list of stuff I need more cash for.

 

[Capt_Zoom]

You'll be a lot better off with raked trees. I've got 6 deg raked trees giving me a total of 39 deg on my raider and it handles better than any of the stock harleys i've owned. I also know guys who have added 9deg raked trees without too much adverse handling. Xs of course is different but it gives you an idea. Taking past 40 without raked trees is going to get hairy.

 

[johnpagn]

As I believe I understand a little of this raking geometry stuff. Just putting raked trees on a stock (unraked ) neck is a no no.
Now someone correct me if I'm wrong here. Raked trees shorten and can possibly reverse the trail .
This would be a great thing if u've already raked out the neck (which lengthens the trail) as I plan to, and I'd like to get some if I can find a set that will fit.

BUT with the stock rake of 28* on an xs (not sure of its trail , I'm sure its short) I dont think raked trees are a good idea. If thats what I understand ur saying to do ?

 

[Capt_Zoom]

It depends if you are lowing the back end or not. its kind of a way to cheat the rake. So if you can get the new rake between 30-33 you should be able to use raked trees with very good results. At least this is what I've been told. Remember that sportbikes use reverse raked trees to tuck the wheel in even more. The nice thing with using raked trees is that if they don't yield good results you just take them off...no cutting to the frame or anything and resell them. Demon cycle has very good prices on raked trees.

 

[johnpagn]

Do they fit with stock xs neck and forks ?

 

[Capt_Zoom]

Probably not. They are meant for HD stuff. Same conversions as a springer setup.