yerbluez
XS650 Member
Is there a way I can make up for the lack of travel on the worm drive at the perch? I will likely order the new assembly but would like to take it out in the meantime.
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Long time reader, new member, having an issue with my clutch (1972 XS2)
- Thread starter yerbluez
- Start date
Try 1/8 back on the push rod screw and then no slack gap at the lever just ta see.
You have way more gap than I use at the lever it will widen as the motor and components warm.
Nature of the beast.
You have way more gap than I use at the lever it will widen as the motor and components warm.
Nature of the beast.
The worm arm still appears to be commencing too far into its travel ....given that it has such a small moment of arc due to the short arm.
If you watch the lever video I believe you'll see that the op has fitted a non standard lever which also has less travel than stock.
If the existing worm lever was to be retained I would grind of the 3x spot welds and reposition the arm on the worm and reweld it to gain more travel in the arm.
I think as a temporary measure you could bend the end of the spring to shorten it so that the spring pulls the arm back strongly to the start position .
Not really. Many of us set the worm screw a bit tighter than the spec, backing it off maybe 1/8 of a turn instead of the specified 1/4 turn. When you set the worm screw, have the adjuster at the hand lever turned fully in, at it's loosest setting. Put as much slack in your cable as possible. Now you're going to try to remove, adjust out, as much of that freeplay as you can with the worm adjusting screw. Work the clutch lever in and out as you turn the worm screw in. Don't pull the lever all the way in and disengage the clutch, just enough so you take up the freeplay and start to feel resistance. What you're trying to do here is push all the pushrod parts together, the series of balls and rods that run over to the clutch from the worm. You should find that the worm adjusting screw will turn in a bit more as you work the hand lever and get all the parts stacked tightly together.
+1 on 5twins adjustment procedure. That's how I set mine. Handlebar adjuster all the way in, then set lever play using the bottom adjuster only. The clutch cables supplied for these bikes have been reported as being a bit too short. To avoid any worm lever overtravel, you want to avoid shortening the cable by leaving the handlebar adjuster run all the way down.
It takes around 400lbs of force against the pushrod to compress the (6) clutch springs. That force works against the nylon worm threads.
It looks like you're getting about 15°-20° of worm rotation, which is about right. That gets you a pushrod travel of about 1.5mm (0.060").
One way to see if the nylon part is cracked, watch for any miniscule outward movement of the nylon, relative to the sidecover opening, alongside the lower adjuster nut.
The best way to confirm pushrod travel is to observe the pressure plate travel, like in this video:
It takes around 400lbs of force against the pushrod to compress the (6) clutch springs. That force works against the nylon worm threads.
It looks like you're getting about 15°-20° of worm rotation, which is about right. That gets you a pushrod travel of about 1.5mm (0.060").
One way to see if the nylon part is cracked, watch for any miniscule outward movement of the nylon, relative to the sidecover opening, alongside the lower adjuster nut.
The best way to confirm pushrod travel is to observe the pressure plate travel, like in this video:
yerbluez
XS650 Member
I got it to work alright after all. Thank you all for your help! Think I may need a new assembly at some point , but for the meantime the new clutch cable helped, as well as all the tips you guys provided. it's definitely smoother, not a single finger pull but better. Clutch engages now when lever is about half way out.
Anyhow thanks again, hopefully this post will be helpful to somebody in the future
Anyhow thanks again, hopefully this post will be helpful to somebody in the future
yerbluez
XS650 Member
Thanks for this description, it helps clarify the process of adjustment for those of us who are new to it. Removing the left side cover and replacing the pushrod seal etc., really helps to get a visual of how everything works together as well.
Have you removed the inner part of the worm assembly, the part that moves? If not then you should, this way you can clean out the grooves in both parts of the worm assembly. Put in fresh grease.
After you clean off the old grease inspect the worm, you may find it's cracked. Cracks tend to make the clutch pull hard and no work well. Most of your lever effort goes to closing the crack before it starts to turn. The crack also rubs inside the housing and increases resistance.
On the adjustment, on the worm adjuster screw, once you loosen the lock nut turn the screw back out a few turns. Spin the screw in/out a bit to get a good feel of how much resistance you feel in just the screw. I have found this to be important. As you adjust the screw in you need to feel the slightest increase in resistance. When you feel this increase is the point you have removed all the free play between the worm and pressure plate. If you tighten it to much you won't get enough clutch engagement and could lead to slippage. Not enough and it could lead to not enough disengagement and be hard to find neutral.
Now with all play removed you need to add back in a small amount. The book calls for 1/4 turn of the adjuster screw, I use a bit less. As you turn the screw the nut turns with it, I turn it back one flat of the nut. Then lock it down. Now at the lever which should have been backed off to max free play before starting at the side cover, adjust for 1/8 to 1/4 inch of free play.
I have found this works very well and opens the pressure plate the max amount. This help ease finding neutral and drag.
Leo
After you clean off the old grease inspect the worm, you may find it's cracked. Cracks tend to make the clutch pull hard and no work well. Most of your lever effort goes to closing the crack before it starts to turn. The crack also rubs inside the housing and increases resistance.
On the adjustment, on the worm adjuster screw, once you loosen the lock nut turn the screw back out a few turns. Spin the screw in/out a bit to get a good feel of how much resistance you feel in just the screw. I have found this to be important. As you adjust the screw in you need to feel the slightest increase in resistance. When you feel this increase is the point you have removed all the free play between the worm and pressure plate. If you tighten it to much you won't get enough clutch engagement and could lead to slippage. Not enough and it could lead to not enough disengagement and be hard to find neutral.
Now with all play removed you need to add back in a small amount. The book calls for 1/4 turn of the adjuster screw, I use a bit less. As you turn the screw the nut turns with it, I turn it back one flat of the nut. Then lock it down. Now at the lever which should have been backed off to max free play before starting at the side cover, adjust for 1/8 to 1/4 inch of free play.
I have found this works very well and opens the pressure plate the max amount. This help ease finding neutral and drag.
Leo
View attachment 86404 View attachment 86403
this is where your clutch worm arm should start on a later 79 model and I'm certain that it should start in exactly the same position on your bike.
If you look at my drawing you'll see the alignment of your worm arm starting position (captured from your video), starts at a little over 90 degrees to the cable pull .
if you look at the pink line it shows you where your worm arm SHOULD start so that you get maximum pull from your lever .
Something is wrong with your setup because your worm arm is starting its pull at just over 90 degrees yet when the worm arm is placed loosely in the case it aligns closer to where it should be.
If you look at your stretched spring that tells you that something is wrong. The spring shouldn't look like that. It is too stretched to return the worm arm back to its correct starting position. You need to bend the end of the spring so that the pull on the worm arm is strong and resists movement.
fu*k me sideways I hate this new image upload format . Just can'[t seem to get the hang of it
[/QUOTE]
this is where your clutch worm arm should start on a later 79 model and I'm certain that it should start in exactly the same position on your bike.
If you look at my drawing you'll see the alignment of your worm arm starting position (captured from your video), starts at a little over 90 degrees to the cable pull .
if you look at the pink line it shows you where your worm arm SHOULD start so that you get maximum pull from your lever .
Something is wrong with your setup because your worm arm is starting its pull at just over 90 degrees yet when the worm arm is placed loosely in the case it aligns closer to where it should be.
If you look at your stretched spring that tells you that something is wrong. The spring shouldn't look like that. It is too stretched to return the worm arm back to its correct starting position. You need to bend the end of the spring so that the pull on the worm arm is strong and resists movement.
fu*k me sideways I hate this new image upload format . Just can'[t seem to get the hang of it
[/QUOTE]
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A late-to-the-party update. The comments above, and peanut's last pic, showing a lack of full retraction of the worm lever, may be caused by a too-tall nylon worm body. If so, grinding off 0.020" - 0.040" (0.50mm - 1.00mm) from the top of the nylon worm body would allow the worm screw to seat a little deeper, and get the worm arm to fully retract, as in peanut's last pic, above.
This post shows one of those "too tall" nylon worm bodies:
XS650 Clutch Worm Actuator experiment & tidbits, post 49
This post shows one of those "too tall" nylon worm bodies:
XS650 Clutch Worm Actuator experiment & tidbits, post 49
It's also possible there could be something stopping it from going in all the way, like old hardened grease packed into the bottom of the seal cup. Fully inserted, the seal cup or holder should sit about 1mm above the mounting screws .....
As far as the female portion of the worm goes, stock ones are about 22mm tall or "thick" .....
You can sand them down to about 21mm to get the male part of the worm to insert a bit deeper but any more than that really doesn't accomplish anything. The seal cup will hit the mounting screws and won't go in any deeper.
As far as the female portion of the worm goes, stock ones are about 22mm tall or "thick" .....
You can sand them down to about 21mm to get the male part of the worm to insert a bit deeper but any more than that really doesn't accomplish anything. The seal cup will hit the mounting screws and won't go in any deeper.
5twins I don't think he needs to do any of this .
As I said right at the beginning of this thread it is the position of the worm arm AFTER he has set the clutch cable adjustment that is wrong.
If you look at his image on post #14 Image #1 you'll see that the initial fitted position of the worm arm is fine BEFORE it is connected to the cable and adjusted.
My opinion from the off is that his spring is too stretched to bring the worm arm back to the correct position and needs changing or shortening.
For some reason once he has adjusted the clutch cable and worm adjust screw the worm arm moves from 7 o'clock to 8'0 clock due I believe to incorrect adjustment and a overly long spring
I mentioned the adjustment thing back in post #11. That is what's responsible for the more than 90° angle between his cable and worm arm once adjusted. Probably too much adjustment at the perch and not enough at the worm screw. You get your best mechanical advantage when the cable is at 90° to the arm. We strive to set our adjustments so the arm will begin at slightly less than that angle and sweep through it as you pull the lever in.
yes I was the first to point out the discrepancy in the worm arm position and clutch cable adjustment in post #10 .
I assumed your post #11 was in response to my previous post !?
I am sure you are quite right about the lever adjustment being incorrect . It would be interesting to see a video of how the po actually adjust the clutch but I still maintain that the worm arm spring will need shortening or replacing to achieve the correct clutch adjustment
