New to XS and new to wiring but Glad to be here!!!!!

[Jeremiahwsnyder]

Hello all,

First off I would like to thank everyone on xs650.com for providing so much great information about these bikes. I have been reading and researching posts the last two weeks and have learned a great deal!!!!!

I just recently bought my first XS650 on CL. Its an 82 special that has been hardtailed. When I bought the bike the PO told me that all that it needed was wired up, seat and tires! I brought it home to PA about two weeks ago and starting reading and researching this forum trying to figure out where I should start. I basically want to get the bike running first then I am planning on doing a complete engine overhaul after riding it some and learning about it's personality. I have many ideas and plans for the bike, but I am at a stand still right now. I have absolutely no electrical knowledge at all and I have been reading and studying all the wire diagrams that has been provided on this site. I would like to see if anyone could give me some advice to what I might be doing wrong. I cannot get the bike to fire up! Not sure if it's due to my electrical skills or possibly something else.

The PO started wiring the bike himself and did not finish. I picked up where he left off. It is a 82 special, kickstart only (PO removed starter solenoid). Here is how I have it wired at this time.

Charging System (Stock)
3 whites from stator connect to 3 whites from combined Rec/Reg
Green runs from rotor to green into Rec/Reg
Yellow is dead ended
Brown runs from rotor to Rec/Reg then connects to red/white from TCI Unit which is then ran to the ignition switch onto ign post.
Orange runs from pickup to white/red into the Reg/Rec
Black runs from pickup to white/black into the Reg/Rec
Gray runs from pickup to white/green into the Reg/Rec

Ignition System (Stock)
orange from ignition coil runs to orange into ignition unit (TCI)
Re/white runs from ignition coil to ignition unit (TCI) then to brown from Rec/Reg then to ignition switch on ign post.
Red runs from Reg/Rec to the battery positive with 20A inline fuse and branches off to ignition switch on battery post.
black runs to battery negative along with black from ignition unit (TCI), then also have another black running from those to engine to ground battery.
Also have a larger black ground from the starter running to the ignition switch on ground post.

With all that said I bought a brand new battery and NGk plugs. I know that I need a fully charged battery from my readings. Here is where I am confused. With the bike wired this way I am able to turn the ignition switch and the bike tries to start. The starter solenoid is not installed should this be happening? I thought I would need the starter solenoid to use the electric start system. Also when I turn it over the wire that runs from the battery to ignition switch battery post gets super hot and started melting?

I am not getting spark consistently either. One minute I am getting it and the next minute I am not. I tested the pickup with VOM and it tested fine reading 734 Ohms and I also tested the Rotor which is reading at 3.4 Ohms so I know that is bad (will that keep bike from starting?) I pulled the carbs off and cleaned everything. I believe the motor is getting fuel, plugs are wet when I pull them out. I am gonna check for compression in the next couple days.

Sorry for so much half ass information and I know from reading this forum that my issues are redundant and I know I'll probably be told to read more and do my research. I have and still am, but I would greatly appreciate if someone with more experience might be able to point me in some kind of direction to get this thing to come alive for me.

Thanks to all

 

[jaredhodge]

Welcome the bike looks good

 

[gggGary]

Yes disconnect that bad rotor somewhere, remove one of the wires from the brushes or disconnect the green wire to the regulator and ignore it for now, it will run without a charging system for "proving it runs" purposes.

As you are finding; adding on to what a clueless PO has done electrically is seldom a smooth path. The starter is powered by a large black wire coming up from the rear of the engine, that wire should not be connected to anything, unhook or remove it completely. Someone connected it to the +12 somewhere and that's the wire melting. Do not kick the engine with the ignition on unless the sparkplugs are on the plug wires and grounded. Is your TCI 8 wire or 6 wire?

 

[Jeremiahwsnyder]

Gary,

Thank you very much for your reply. I will disconnect the green and large starter tonight tonight. The wire that was melting was not the black large power from the starter though, it was the battery positive lead with the 20A fuse inline. Also you stated not to kick the motor over with the key on and plugs not connected and grounded. I actually did kick it while the key was on and plugs were hanging to see if I had spark. What if one was not grounded and just hanging? What damage could that of caused?

I think that I only have one black/white wire that I didnt use coming from the TCI. So am I right in saying I have a 8 block TCI but only 7 wires? I will confirm this tonight for sure.

Thanks again!

 

[5twins]

The starter is meant to be powered through heavy wires running directly from the battery but through the starter solenoid or relay. Smaller wires connect to the solenoid and trigger it when you push the starter button. The starter draws lots of amps and power, that's why it needs the heavy wire. The way yours is set up without the solenoid, all those amps and power are going through the little red wire to get to the heavy battery cable. That's why the red wire is melting. Remove the heavy wire running to the starter as Gary said, or if you want to keep it, add the solenoid back in.

I think the extra wires on the later TCI units were for a side stand safety relay. You can run with them simply not connected. You'll need to study a factory wiring diagram to determine just which color wires they are.

 

[Jeremiahwsnyder]

Thank you 5twins,

The bike does have the sidestand switch still on it. The plug is just not connected to anything. With that being said after disconnecting the green and starter my wiring should be correct? I should be able to turn key on and kick start?

 

[gggGary]

You probably didn't hurt anything but the TCI and coil do not like ungrounded plugs. Hint; the factory took great care in shock mounting the TCI to avoid vibration. Bobber Bill usually does nothing of the sort. Protect your TCI or pay the price. The wire shouldn't glow if the fuse is working but yes I suspect a back feed to the starter somewhere was creating the "toaster effect" on the light gauge wire.

 

[gggGary]

The TCI trouble shooting involves being sure everything else is working properly ruling out anything but a bad TCI. There was just a post where a guy found a loose capacitor lead inside the TCI creating an intermittent spark. Bobber bill had solid mounted it...........
Poor or missing grounds is a biggy, bobber bill again, who needs all those pesky wires, the frame is the ground right, uh right?? A guy grounded his battery to a convenient threaded hole in the swing arm took a while to figure THAT one out.

Big pics of your electrical areas really help (those that want to help) find clues.....

 

[5twins]

I can't say your wiring is going to be 100% correct but at least you should stop melting things, lol.

 

[Jeremiahwsnyder]

I can't say your wiring is going to be 100% correct but at least you should stop melting things, lol.

Definately a step in the right direction, thanks again!

 

[Jeremiahwsnyder]

The TCI trouble shooting involves being sure everything else is working properly ruling out anything but a bad TCI. There was just a post where a guy found a loose capacitor lead inside the TCI creating an intermittent spark. Bobber bill had solid mounted it...........
Poor or missing grounds is a biggy, bobber bill again, who needs all those pesky wires, the frame is the ground right, uh right?? A guy grounded his battery to a convenient threaded hole in the swing arm took a while to figure THAT one out.

Big pics of your electrical areas really help (those that want to help) find clues.....

I will take some more photos this evening. I will check all my connections and will be sure to bubble wrap that TCI before mounting it!!! As far as grounds, I have the battery grounded to a bolt on motor that should be sufficient enough?

Thanks

 

[5twins]

Batteries usually get a solid frame ground somewhere. Custom bike builders often encounter problems because they fail to clean that fresh custom paint off the frame where the grounds connect.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Jer,
Scroll up to the orange bar at the top of the screen.
Click on "Tech"
Scroll down the new screen to "Electrical"
Everything there that anyone needs to know.

 

[Jeremiahwsnyder]

ok,

I tried some more trouble shooting last night and this morning and here is what I have going on. I disconnected the green wire from the rotor and removed the power wire from the starter like you said Gary. Tried kicking it over a while and I still have no spark what so ever.

I did some more reading on how to test the coil and plugs. I disconnected the plug going to the ignition coil and tested the primary resistance and got 4.5 ohms between the orange and red/white wires. I also turned the key on and tested the engine side of the same plug positive lead to the red/white and black lead to ground and got 12.86 going to the coil. I then tested the secondary plug wires, disconnected the plug going to the coil and probe in each end of plug wires. Got a reading of 1. Did I test right? Possible bad plug wires?

attached some photos of the rats nest wiring I have right now, I believe that the wiring is setup correctly (I have studied and studied the Tech section diagrams), but please let me know if anyone disagrees. Pictures also confirm that I have a 7 wire TCI and the only wire that I am not using is the Black with white tracer for the sidestand switch. Also I dont know if this matters but the one picture is of all the grounds in the system. I have them all lumped into one to the battery and then have the battery grounded to the frame.

Thanks

 

[barr1981]

i have a 81 with same problem.. did you ever get the 82 started?

 

[Jeremiahwsnyder]

No I haven't got it started yet. I spent about two weeks troubleshooting everything trying to narrow the issue down. I bought another coil from my local salvage yard and that did not remedy it. I examined tci unit for evidence of burnt resistors or bad soldering. Could not find anything there. Finally gave up and ordered a new e-advance pampco to replace all old components. I was planning on ordering it eventually with a pma so out with the old and in with the new.

Sorry I can't be more assistance with your 81 issue. From my reading on this forum all I can say is try to test each component coil, regulator, battery, plug wire & caps. If everything checks out take a look at the tci unit. There are several threads on tci problems and repairs if that is your issue. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions or make any progress.

 

[barr1981]

i have checked all the same read everything... i will be ordering pampco e-advance also.. thank you for responding.