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Oil in cylinders
- Thread starter Stoop22kid
- Start date
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
oooh she's definitely burning oil !
good luck to you !
Bob........
good luck to you !
Bob........
I recently reassembled my engine after a rebore. In the past I put head gaskets on dry and have had no problems. Due to an issue with valves I removed the head after 22 miles which cost me a new head gasket + time. The valve clearance spaces in the top of each piston contained oil and I assumed this came from two sources. The oil I liberally put on the rings during fitting and oil passing the rings during the initial few miles when the rings were not settled in. However I never observed white smoke from the exhausts. When I checked the rings I could see a section approximately 3mm either side of the 2nd ring's gap where the rings had not worn in yet. The spark plugs were blacker than normal but not wet. After reassembly and 200 miles later the plugs are now running clean and the kick starter has become noticeably harder to use and there is a more powerful kick-back to it.
So it does take time for the rings to settle in. But my concern is that you are observing white smoke. I personally would remove the head and check that all is correct, but that is just me and I enjoy working on engines.
The other alternatives could be to run a further 50 miles and see if the oiling stops, or pop the valve covers off and check the valve oil seals on the offending side. There is a thread, and I think it is on this forum or on Youtube, where they show how to change the valve oil seals without removing the head. It seemed a bit fiddly and you had to make a simple tool but this could possibly save you removing the engine and head. But my personal choice would be to waste 2 hours getting the engine out and take the head off to make all the checks because it is easier to work that way and you can even check the bores for potential damage. When you remove the head it will be obvious if oil is leaking through. Also the use of excessive sealant around the cam chain housing can result in sealant contaminating the head gasket as it is extruded under pressure during torqing and this can cause oil to seep past - but white smoke is more suggestive to me of a valve seal issue. But with the head off everything can be checked easily. Just a pitting the bike frame does not have a bolt in section for easy removal to allow the head off with the engine in place.
Also, this last time when I reassembled my engine I took advice from this forum and put anti-seize grease on each stud and what a surprise. The torqing down process became a very easy and pleasant experience. The grease made the whole process so controlled.
So it does take time for the rings to settle in. But my concern is that you are observing white smoke. I personally would remove the head and check that all is correct, but that is just me and I enjoy working on engines.
The other alternatives could be to run a further 50 miles and see if the oiling stops, or pop the valve covers off and check the valve oil seals on the offending side. There is a thread, and I think it is on this forum or on Youtube, where they show how to change the valve oil seals without removing the head. It seemed a bit fiddly and you had to make a simple tool but this could possibly save you removing the engine and head. But my personal choice would be to waste 2 hours getting the engine out and take the head off to make all the checks because it is easier to work that way and you can even check the bores for potential damage. When you remove the head it will be obvious if oil is leaking through. Also the use of excessive sealant around the cam chain housing can result in sealant contaminating the head gasket as it is extruded under pressure during torqing and this can cause oil to seep past - but white smoke is more suggestive to me of a valve seal issue. But with the head off everything can be checked easily. Just a pitting the bike frame does not have a bolt in section for easy removal to allow the head off with the engine in place.
Also, this last time when I reassembled my engine I took advice from this forum and put anti-seize grease on each stud and what a surprise. The torqing down process became a very easy and pleasant experience. The grease made the whole process so controlled.
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
What bothers me is the low compression it's very Low compression and it's a wonder it runs at all
a head gasket leak could do that but it should also be leaking oil too on the outside
it will be educational to see what he comes up with !
.....
Bob.........
a head gasket leak could do that but it should also be leaking oil too on the outside
it will be educational to see what he comes up with !
.....
Bob.........
Sounds like detective time, some possibles;
Valve seals,
head gasket
piston ring fitting problem.
valve guides.
Note; when checking studs, loosen one nut at a time til it frees from the stud then retorque. nuts should have oil or anti seize on them.
Valve seals,
head gasket
piston ring fitting problem.
valve guides.
Note; when checking studs, loosen one nut at a time til it frees from the stud then retorque. nuts should have oil or anti seize on them.
member3480
RICH
It could be one of those cheap head gaskets that are being sold. I had a bike just a couple months ago that was rebuilt with 500 miles and blew the gasket and leaked oil all over. The other thing with the Mikes kit is (I have done 10 ) I don't like the way the outer oil rings sit. Most oil rings have two flats that butt together with no problem and don't move. The 750 kit they are lower and can cross and will still get cylinders on. That will pass oil. I would just tear it down look good at everything. Did yo stagger the rings? Pictures will help
I completely missed those compression values and they are wet values too! This is simply not an issue of valve seals as I hoped. I hope the outcome is not too much additional expense.
Baking Soda: http://www.xs650.com/threads/baking-soda.830/
Stoop22kid
XS650 Addict
Stoop22kid
XS650 Addict
I've decided to remove each of the head bolts, chase the threads, apply anti-seize, then re torque everything......why you ask? Because today as I was leaving for work I noticed some oil on the garage floor so I got to looking for where it was coming from and it looks like it's coming from the head and base gasket. So I'm thinking that when I retorqued the head the first time it didn't do anything since there was no anti-seize on the studs and the studs just twisted a little then went back to how they were. Which would explain why this only started happening over time and wasn't leaking from the start.....right?
I would not run a thread die down the studs. They are designed for cutting threads, not for cleaning or reforming, and sometimes they can be too aggressive and remove too much metal. If you have the proper chaser then that is fine. The Acorn nut that comes off should have left the threads quite clean. I would just use a wire brush and then put the anti-seize on. The twisting you observed is because the stud has twisted like a torsion bar under the applied force. Others have observed this but it should not mess up the torque setting because it is the stud twisting not the nut unscrewing. Head gasket re-torqing may not stop an oil leak if the gasket is damaged. But a compression test afterwards should show if you have improved things. If you think the problem is solved then run the engine with a clean plug and see.
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
Last edited:
When I first bought my bike, it had a passing head gasket. Pistons tops and cylinder heads had lots of carbon deposit. Spark plugs were always black.
However, a compression test was good at 140/145 psig. So don't evaluate strickly on a compression test.
However, a compression test was good at 140/145 psig. So don't evaluate strickly on a compression test.
Stoop22kid
XS650 Addict
Well retorquing the head didn't help so off it comes. So far so good on everything.
but make sure you keep an extra close eye on your pamco wires if you're running a pamco because the vibrations will cause them to move sometimes apparently. Looks like I had this problem just in time to save my ignition.
Hopefully it isn't too far gone and I can individually heat shrink the wires and be good to go once the other problem is solved.
When I rebuilt my 75 engine, as a 2nd over 650, on the engine stand, all parts generously covered with engine oil on assembly. No carbs and cranking with the e-start, I got 165 PSI compression.
After I installed Mike's 750 kit, on stand, well oiled, e-start I got 195 PSI compression.
Your engine may be slightly different than mine but with a increase from about 8.1 to 1 compression ratio to about 9.5 to 1, the PSI will increase. The 8.1 to 9.5 is about a 17 % increase. That should give about the same increase in PSI. My 165 + 17% = 193. That's what I got. If I did another 750 kit I would expect at least 175 PSI compression.
When you did the 750 kit, did you do a valve job, Lapping the valves and seats and install new valve seals?
Leo
After I installed Mike's 750 kit, on stand, well oiled, e-start I got 195 PSI compression.
Your engine may be slightly different than mine but with a increase from about 8.1 to 1 compression ratio to about 9.5 to 1, the PSI will increase. The 8.1 to 9.5 is about a 17 % increase. That should give about the same increase in PSI. My 165 + 17% = 193. That's what I got. If I did another 750 kit I would expect at least 175 PSI compression.
When you did the 750 kit, did you do a valve job, Lapping the valves and seats and install new valve seals?
Leo
Stoop22kid
XS650 Addict
Yessir I did the valve work and had everything vapor honed and new gaskets and seals and all. But this is the first engine ive ever built and did it all on my own. So I kinda expected something to be wrong haha. Nothing ever goes perfect the first time. But.....live and learn.
With the heads off you could pour gas in the conbustion chamber to see if it leaks past the valves.
Tappet adjustment -- with a 277 degree how did you know where to put the crank when you adjusted the tappet clearance? If you did that wrong it would account for the super low compression.
Tappet adjustment -- with a 277 degree how did you know where to put the crank when you adjusted the tappet clearance? If you did that wrong it would account for the super low compression.
Stoop22kid
XS650 Addict
The valves were adjusted correctly.....multiple times haha. Im finally getting a night off work tomorrow night so I'll be able to get most of the work done. Longest part is probably going to be waiting on parts to get here
