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He's my neighbor!
Flowery Branch, Georgia. You got a problem with that?
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Oil Leaks - 1978 XS Special
- Thread starter Backroader
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Got about 300 miles on it and did my last re-torque. Will change the oil at 500 and try the Castrol synthetic 10-60. Thoughts anyone? Been using Castrol 20-50 with a ZDDP additive. Since it doesn't leak now, I should break even on the price difference. Hmmm? Should I need the ZDDP with the synthetic oil?
You may be interested to read the following technical page from SmedSpeed in the UK. Just scroll down to the oil section:
http://www.smedspeed.co.uk/tech.html
He has been using the 10W-60 extended life Mobil. The 10W part interests me because it will mean less strain on the sump oil strainer in colder weather.
http://www.smedspeed.co.uk/tech.html
He has been using the 10W-60 extended life Mobil. The 10W part interests me because it will mean less strain on the sump oil strainer in colder weather.
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In a recent thread the topic of engine oil thinning and how this affects getting into neutral when stationary was discussed. See the comments by TM regarding clutch performance and Bob Kelly III regarding multigrade oil degradation:
https://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/xs650-hall-on-oil/
If you use a 10w type multigrade oil then the oil will thin towards a lower value than if you were to use a 20w type. The result is that after many miles the oil viscosity may be getting lower for the 10W types so lubrication may be suffering more than if the 20W type were used. The key to XS oil use has got to be changing it regularly. I do not know when the Mobil-1 extended life 10W60 was being changed - probably at about 1000 miles is my guess. People are suggesting 1000 - 1500 miles but based on TM's comments in the above link regarding clutch performance it seems 1000 miles is the better time to change the oil.
Perhaps you should just go for a 20W-50 motorcycle oil. The following link to "thexscafedotcom" gives a Tony Hall article:
https://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/category/m-engine/motor-oil/
Edit (11/03/21): Link to Tony Hall article will not work. Instead type Tony Hall into the search facility at top left of page.
Although this covers several topics to do with lubrication/filters/cooler, in the last half of the second column he speaks about oil and suggests not to go thinner and when best to change oil versus regular or infrequent running.
https://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/xs650-hall-on-oil/
If you use a 10w type multigrade oil then the oil will thin towards a lower value than if you were to use a 20w type. The result is that after many miles the oil viscosity may be getting lower for the 10W types so lubrication may be suffering more than if the 20W type were used. The key to XS oil use has got to be changing it regularly. I do not know when the Mobil-1 extended life 10W60 was being changed - probably at about 1000 miles is my guess. People are suggesting 1000 - 1500 miles but based on TM's comments in the above link regarding clutch performance it seems 1000 miles is the better time to change the oil.
Perhaps you should just go for a 20W-50 motorcycle oil. The following link to "thexscafedotcom" gives a Tony Hall article:
https://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/category/m-engine/motor-oil/
Edit (11/03/21): Link to Tony Hall article will not work. Instead type Tony Hall into the search facility at top left of page.
Although this covers several topics to do with lubrication/filters/cooler, in the last half of the second column he speaks about oil and suggests not to go thinner and when best to change oil versus regular or infrequent running.
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While reading about Mailman's recent topend teardown, I noticed his '72 didn't have that oil baffle in the head either. I checked some parts diagrams and they don't show it until '74, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt having one in there. There were owner complaints about too much oil coming out of the breather on some early models and this baffle may have been one of Yamaha's steps to cure that. They also reduced the amount of oil used.
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5twins, yes , the neutral trick, I've been doing it or if you can't take your front brake off, pump the forks up and down a few times. Yes, old oil and hi temps don't help.
Also, I used the oil breather baffle from the 75 in my 72. I also used the dipstick from the 75. So far only a few drips from the breathers and the oil has not appreciably gone down.
Paul, thanks for the link. Not sure if the Mobil 10-60 is available in the US. I can get the Castrol at Advance Auto and it ain't cheap, but not sure if it has ZDDP in it like the Mobil. Did you check out Smedley's oil filter conversion?
Also, I used the oil breather baffle from the 75 in my 72. I also used the dipstick from the 75. So far only a few drips from the breathers and the oil has not appreciably gone down.
Paul, thanks for the link. Not sure if the Mobil 10-60 is available in the US. I can get the Castrol at Advance Auto and it ain't cheap, but not sure if it has ZDDP in it like the Mobil. Did you check out Smedley's oil filter conversion?
I still have half a case of Green Oil (for all you tree huggers out there)..Have been wondering about the affects of high ZDDP on my newly installed Kevlar friction plates? Left over from my modified Jag.engine. At the race track, all the air cooled junkies (Porsche) use it. 
Been using Valvoline VR1 20-50 high zddp on all my XS's for quite a while now, no clutch issues.
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Yep! I've been using Rislone Zinc treatment additive for more than 30K miles and no clutch problems either.
Which year did Yamaha start putting orings on the valve covers? I’m not having the best of luck with oring longevity on these grooved covers. I’d like to find a set that just uses gaskets.
Take some gasket material and cut your own to fit the covers you have. 
76?
Yeah parts fiches say 76 first year with O-rings.
You using fat silicone O-rings? Make sure there's no globs of clear coat on the cover flange.
Yeah parts fiches say 76 first year with O-rings.
You using fat silicone O-rings? Make sure there's no globs of clear coat on the cover flange.
I bought generic Viton O rings and they're perfect as per the size recommended on the O ring thread. Packs of ten are cheap and Viton works well on the valve covers I've found. Temperature rating is higher than the Nitrile very commonly found.
Pack of ten Viton O rings will be cheaper than another set of valve covers. There's clearly a reason Yamaha chose to switch from gaskets to O rings.
I suspect your O rings are made of Chinesium.
I make point of not crushing the snot out of the oring it's OK for there to be a slight gap at the flange. Yes after a couple valve settings there might be some thin "strings" I peel off and carry on.
It's kind of funny; I have the tooling to turn O-ring grooves into non O-ring valve covers....
It's kind of funny; I have the tooling to turn O-ring grooves into non O-ring valve covers....
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+1 to gggG's thinking. That's the big advantage of O rings v gaskets. As long as there's a bit of compression on the O ring rubber it isn't going to leak and you aren't going to risk pulling the stud threads out from the alloy. Gaskets need a lot more load on the studs to seal, where O rings require almost nothing. O rings are definitely the way to go there IMHO.
Viton though, not nitrile.
Viton though, not nitrile.
Could very well be I’m squishing them too much. I’ll see how my current sealing job holds up. Next time I’ll leave a gap. Maybe I can rig up some spacers under the caps so the oring doesn’t become over compressed. I’ll have to think about this.
I use the generic silicone o-rings as well, and like Gary and you, I find they get "pinched" and damaged. But like Gary, I just peel off the "strings" and carry on, lol. Sometimes I'll flip them over too. So far, they've been sealing up just fine. When I got the '83, the P.O. had installed gaskets (along with the o-rings and gasket sealer) and one at least, leaked badly .......
I cleaned all the junk off them and installed new silicone o-rings, and they all sealed up fine.
I cleaned all the junk off them and installed new silicone o-rings, and they all sealed up fine.
One nice thing about a properly designed O ring and groove is that you can't over compress the O ring. Everything sized correctly, the cover should be able to pretty easily compress metal to metal with no issues and no excessive tightening. I think I'd double check what you're using. Having said that, all the same, a bit of a gap on the cover should be just fine too. Difficult to say what you have without seeing it myself.
One thing you could do if you really wanted to, look up the recommended dimensions for O ring grooves at the diameter you're using. I'm using 62 x 3mm from memory. If you happen to be using imperial size O rings (say 1/8" rather than 3mm) then you'll find the recommended O ring groove dimensions will change too. Might pay to double check what you're using?
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I realize the that I'm asking about these breather items 15 years too late, but I have a weird problem. Since 1976 when I acquired my 72, it has been leaving 2 little drips on the garage floor, (much to my father's shagrin), and everywhere I stopped to park it. This was before I knew about putting in less oil.
In 2018 when I installed the 750 kit, I also installed a breather from a 75, and began using a 75 dipstick. After that, the breather tubes never leaked. I could park on the whitest concrete driveway without a worry.
Now, I had the engine out and put the 72 breather back on because the 75 pushed the tubes down towards the carbs and caused them to kink.
Well, the breather tubes are now leaking again.
These pics are of a 75. The 72 breather is on the bike right now, so no pics. The 72 baffle is different and the tubes extend straight out, not at a 45 like the 75 shown.
I'm gonna put the 75 breather on in a few days and hopefully I'll be able to get those long hex bolts out without loosening the engine from the frame.
Question? Could it just be the different baffles on the 75 that allows the oil to flow back into the engine? Anyone?
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