Purplezinger
XS650 Addict
Does anyone offer a spacer for the oil sump?
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Oil sump spacer
- Thread starter Purplezinger
- Start date
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- Tags
- engine lubrication oil sump
jayel
#9 Guru 74 TX650A
if you are try to increase oil capacity don't think you could make one deep enough (ground clearance) hanging out past frame tubes to make any difference
The ones I have seen might add a 1/2 pint. This won't help much. If you want to help cooling, an oil cooler is easy and very effective. It aslo increases the oil volume more than the sump extension does.
Purplezinger
XS650 Addict
Not to cause controversy, but I've seen a number of engines damaged with "add-on" oil coolers. Especially Lockhart coolers back in the 70's and early 80 's. To clarify this statement, these installations did not bypass the cooler on cold startup, therefore starving the bearings when the oil was cold. Over the past 40 years I've owned 7 XS650's starting with an XS2 and now after my last 650 14 years ago, a 83 Heritage.
Purplezinger
XS650 Addict
It's true, sump spacers may only increase volume by a pint, but with a 2 quart capacity the additional pint equates to a 20% increase. There are many benefits to this, a reduction in cycle time, this leads to reduces oil temperature, longer oil life and reduced wear.
I'm not going to measure my sump plate, but a spacer 6"x"6"x2" would give you an additional entire quart and a quarter (1ci = 0.034632pt).
But I have to think the way they made it is sufficient or preferable.
But I have to think the way they made it is sufficient or preferable.
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Yes, I agree a lot of those early oil coolers did damage to engines. They where plumbed into the oil feed tube to the head. I can see that that could starve the head of oil under some circumstances. Some people reamed out the restriction in the oil feed to the head. Doing this can starve the lower end of oil.
The system I use won't have that problem I plumb it in on the right side cover between the oil pump outlet and where the oilis delivered into the engine. Un less the lines and cooler are plugged oil will flow. Even when cold out. If it gets too cold it is easy to unhook the cooler so the oil goes back to the engine with out going thru the cooler. Takes about 5 minutes.
The system I use won't have that problem I plumb it in on the right side cover between the oil pump outlet and where the oilis delivered into the engine. Un less the lines and cooler are plugged oil will flow. Even when cold out. If it gets too cold it is easy to unhook the cooler so the oil goes back to the engine with out going thru the cooler. Takes about 5 minutes.
A sump plate is about 2.375 by 6.5 inches inside the gasket. 2.375 x 6.5 = 15.4375 x 1 inch thick = 15.4375 ci x .034632 = .5 pts. Not a bad guess when I said 1/2 a pint.
Not a bad choice for thickness either
I suspect increasing the oil capacity would let you go longer between changes, but that you would go through exactly the same amount of oil. It takes longer for the crap to reach a certain concentration, but when you change oil you have to use more oil. Maybe their design goal is a capacity that gives you a reasonable interval between changes.
Purplezinger
XS650 Addict
I had a small shop back in the 70's and it's been a while but I believe I had 2 or 3 customers that damaged their engines with "Add-on" coolers. I'm still not a big fan unless it's a factory installation.
I don't doubt you did have some damaged engines. If done improperly, yes oil starvation can occur.
In my installation all the oil comes out of the case thru the cooler and back into the rightside oil filter housing. Thru the filter, on into the engine. very little to no possibility of oil starvation.
This system has been used for many years around the world without any problems.
In my installation all the oil comes out of the case thru the cooler and back into the rightside oil filter housing. Thru the filter, on into the engine. very little to no possibility of oil starvation.
This system has been used for many years around the world without any problems.
Additional oil stays cool longer-- oil cooler or not. And lowering the sump into the air stream would cool oil as well. Not to say that a larger sump is a substitute for an oil cooler but when you're looking at every possible option then it might be a good idea.
As for clearance, the stock XS650 was built to accommodate lots of different riding styles and for some of us a couple of inches is no issue. For others, you might need to put on taller tires.
Purplezinger, When you find that spacer please let me know where.
As for clearance, the stock XS650 was built to accommodate lots of different riding styles and for some of us a couple of inches is no issue. For others, you might need to put on taller tires.
Purplezinger, When you find that spacer please let me know where.
tonyc
XS650 Guru
Would not directed cool air towards the sump help and be more economical? Tony C
Purplezinger
XS650 Addict
I've never heard it called Lexica but yes I live near Lex.
If you're asking if directing cool air without other upgrades the answer is, yes it would help and yes, it would be more economical.
But.
If you're looking for the maximum cooling possible then you would want to combine controlling airflow, larger sumps, oil cooler and more.
Another big issue with oil coolers is where they are mounted. Most builders mount them on the front of the frame but that mounting blocks cool air flow to the hottest parts of the engine-- jug and head. Definitely not a good idea and will probably do more harm than good. There are better ways to cool oil and one of them can be found here:
http://www.twins-inn.de/twins-inn/start.htm?oelfilter,_oelpumpe,_oelkuehler.htm Combined with a case mounted or remote mounted spin-on filter and an oil cooler mounted to the side of the engine but facing the air stream, overheating should never be a problem.
Me, I'm going for the whole ball of wax.
Photo and link via another member and real XS650 racer who PMed me this morning. Thanks Dude.
Tech7
XS650 Junkie
My question is, "Why do you think your XS needs a bigger oil capacity, or cooler oil unless you are running it hard like a dirt track bike?" C'mon, they're pretty dependable as is, don't overthink it. How hard do you run this thing? I'm thinking overkill.
Overkill-- maybe, but I'm going for bullet proof. The bottom end is about as bullet proof as they come but here in the Southland we ride on 100+ Degree days and cooling is something of a concern on any bike.
I have the cooler mounted up under the steering head. Yes, right in front of the head. Does it effect air flow to the head, probably.
I have mine set up to get oil from the pump and feeds it back into the side cover oil filter cavity. In setting it up I had questions on effectiveness.
I rigged up a car temp gauge with a 3/4 inch tee fitting and some barb fittings. After I got all the case fittings installed I plumbed in just the tee fitting to get a base line temp. On a 60 mile loop on a 75 degree day the oil temp settled in at about 200 degrees. At the garage it used a non contact thermometer to check head and cylinder temps. They ran about the same at 280 degrees. I then plumbed in an external oil filter, thinking the extra oil and the filter hanging out in the air would help keep things cooler. I kept the temp sensor in the oil return line as close to engine as I could.
On the second 60 mile loop the oil temp dropped about 5 degrees, cylinder and head about 25 degrees.
At the garage I plumbed in the cooler. The oil flowed out of the engine to the filter to the cooler and back to the engine past the temp sensor. On that 60 mile loop the oil dropped 45 degrees, the head and cylinders dropped another 25 degrees.
The oil filter hung down off the front engine mount, cooler up under the head. Even with the cooler blocking the head and the filter blocking the case, the cylinder and head temps dropped significantly. Any blockage of air flow to the heads was more than made up for by having the cooler.
I have mine set up to get oil from the pump and feeds it back into the side cover oil filter cavity. In setting it up I had questions on effectiveness.
I rigged up a car temp gauge with a 3/4 inch tee fitting and some barb fittings. After I got all the case fittings installed I plumbed in just the tee fitting to get a base line temp. On a 60 mile loop on a 75 degree day the oil temp settled in at about 200 degrees. At the garage it used a non contact thermometer to check head and cylinder temps. They ran about the same at 280 degrees. I then plumbed in an external oil filter, thinking the extra oil and the filter hanging out in the air would help keep things cooler. I kept the temp sensor in the oil return line as close to engine as I could.
On the second 60 mile loop the oil temp dropped about 5 degrees, cylinder and head about 25 degrees.
At the garage I plumbed in the cooler. The oil flowed out of the engine to the filter to the cooler and back to the engine past the temp sensor. On that 60 mile loop the oil dropped 45 degrees, the head and cylinders dropped another 25 degrees.
The oil filter hung down off the front engine mount, cooler up under the head. Even with the cooler blocking the head and the filter blocking the case, the cylinder and head temps dropped significantly. Any blockage of air flow to the heads was more than made up for by having the cooler.
