War on Drugs?

So I’m 32, I’ve lost 4 friends, all of them mid 20s when the passed, all from overdoses. One was definitely effected by Fetanyl. The others were before it even came about and became such a problem. Right after high school everybody started doing pills, xanex, oxys, but mainly percocets. Then after spending so much on percs, they realized heroin was much cheaper. While getting rid of cartels would be beautiful, I don’t think that’s the major problem. It’s how openly prescriptions are given out here. Aren’t we one of the only countries where prescription companies can openly advertise their products on tv? As a construction worker I see this even more so. People nodding out on jobs, we even get a course on how to administer narcan, and I have some in my work bag. While I can’t add any insight on how to crack down on I guess getting drugs off the streets, I would say that investing in anything to do with mental health is a great option.
 
650Skull said:
they are forced to make money illegally
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No. Not forced. It's all they know. Who is going to hire them and to do what? It goes from one generation to the next.

JesseeS said:
Aren’t we one of the only countries where prescription companies can openly advertise their products on tv?
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The U.S. and New Zealand are the only two. It's ridiculous IMHO.

When I think about my family, my friends, coworkers and their families and friends, the death and destruction from drugs touches me all too often. It's out of hand.
 
From an Australian on a different forum also discussing Fentanyl.
"Great guy, great mate, broke my god damn heart. Got onto OxyContin (for legitimate reasons initially) and made him a different person. I did what I could, I helped with time, with money, he lived with me for a time...but I had to cut him off. That was hard. Still love the guy as a brother...but haven’t spoken in years."
 
gggGary said:
From an Australian on a different forum also discussing Fentanyl.
"Great guy, great mate, broke my god damn heart. Got onto OxyContin (for legitimate reasons initially) and made him a different person. I did what I could, I helped with time, with money, he lived with me for a time...but I had to cut him off. That was hard. Still love the guy as a brother...but haven’t spoken in years."
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Science is advancing our understanding of the brain's functioning regarding drugs and addiction. It's been some time, but I recall reading about alcohol "re-wiring" the electro-chemical paths in the brain. I suspect drugs generally do that. I haven't read such studies about meth, but I can tell you, anecdotally, that (given time) it makes perceptible and perhaps permanent changes in personality and cognitive processes even in sobriety. An anecdotal observation; I don't recall hearing of near daily high speed police chases (scores of miles and multi-county) in years past as I do currently.
 
Drug addiction is a complex issue to solve and there’s no one size fits all solution. Sometimes I feel like a societal shift in attitude towards treatment and prevention will go further than anything. Even when we look at countries like Malaysia, where the death penalty for possession and trafficking hangs over the addcits head, we still see a rise in use.

Escape is the cause of usage. While many addictions are born from innocuous ventures, escape is always the end product. Escape from poverty, pain, or withdrawal, it doesn’t matter. When the need for escape has been resolved, so will be the the active addiction. I say active, because the addiction will always be there, but the call to pursue will be diminished. Even if we manage to ravage supply lines people will find a way to escape, meth and krokodil are prime examples of that.

We’ve made strides in the right direction, the narcotic initiative is a big one pointed out earlier by jpdevol. We have a national database that gets checked now when you go to fill high profile scripts, no more hopping from pharmacy to pharmacy. I feel 650skull hit it on the head as well, investment and support in people will go a long way. Right now our general attitude is take in the stray dog, feed it for a few days until it is just healthy enough, and then put it back on the street and maybe this time it will do better. If one is fortunate enough to have good insurance or family support this can take it a further, but without those resources creatures of habit will return to what they know. If we help cure the addict, it will inevitably crush the supplier.

We need stronger and more broad reaching treatment methodologies regardless of socioeconomic status. We need follow up support for developing people into functional members of society via skill training and career assistance programs. Individuals with purpose, ones who can see possibilities and growth, will not falter as easily, they can see a better life. Most of all, society as a whole must shift it’s perspective from ostracizer to helping hand. People deserve help.

I often get attitude with this ideology I hold, people make a choice to do drugs why should I have to pay for it? Type 2 diabetes, hypertension, and heart failure are often preventable with good diet and exercise and yet we as a society spend billions a year via hospitalization and treatment on Medicare recipients who choose not to take care of themselves. Sure they paid into it, but the majority surpass their investment within the first few years of major medical treatment for these disease processes. Why should I as a healthy adult who’s made good decisions regarding my health have to continue to pay for retirees who can’t lay off the salt or get off the Laz-boy and walk a few miles a day? I don’t have that attitude obviously, these people need help, and I work hard to help them. We’ve all got our cross to bear and although mine may be different than yours, we should hope to all have help carrying the weight a little when we need it.
 
jpdevol said:
I don't pretend to know IL nor your patient base, but in my area prescription narcotics, benzos, etc. have become so tightly controlled it is difficult to get a prescription and those prescribed can't be refilled early, can only have two refills before another prescriber visit and if medicaid, etc. often involve urinalysis to make sure one is taking them vs. selling them. The pharmaceutical abuse, here, is now a much smaller problem than it used to be. The opposite is true of gang supplied street drugs.

The crime is significantly linked to meth and the deaths linked to fentanyl. I'm not saying pharma doesn't have addiction - it certainly does - it's a different world from street drugs and that "supply chain".
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Its similar in the UK also. Any addictive prescription drugs are very controlled now. However there are more instances of pharmacies being broken into; the criminals take whatever they can and sell them on to unsuspecting gullible druggies on the street (In Pubs mostly!). They also grind down any old tablets to powder and pass it of as other substances. You'd be nuts to take anything from such sources; it would lead to illness at best and death at worst.

The above is on top of the underground criminal drug activity, which is increasing by the week. We have something called 'County Lines' over here where drug syndicates use runners to take supplies over county boarders to try and confuse the police. The runners are sometimes caught, but quickly replaced by others, often press-ganged into service (Do it or we will rape your sister / kill your mother tack-ticks) and rewarded with cash and fast 'cloned' cars. How the hell can this be controlled at ground level. As stated previously the head of the snake need to come off along with the pit of vipers that support it at source. Will any world government invest in bringing this down? I fear not.
 
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650Skull said:
Have to break the cycle and that takes money and time and a lot of effort.

Our min wage as a round $17.50 ph. 40 hours = $700 pw. Usually people on min wage are part time workers working less than 30h pw = $525.00pw...........A single Retiree who has worked his/her whole life, gets $500.00 on the pension. That is very basic surviving and giving up most luxuries.

I have heard the same argument about problems in aborigine communities They are lazy, wont work, and dole bludger's. When there are very few employment opportunities and 90% unemployment rates from one generation to the next who live on Govt welfare, $240.00pw, (less than the poverty line), then social problems arise with drugs and alcohol, leading to violence, sexual and physical assaults and high death rates.

The argument, (from ignorant people), is they cant or don't want to change..........They cant without help and when its generational it takes 2-3 generations to break the cycle but that also en-tales support and investment............

Or is it easier to invade another country and kill the cartels or blame migrants.
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Agreed Doug, the UK (Non)-working population have become generational benefit professionals that state 'Its my right to have benefits'; even though they have never worked a day in their lives or paid into our tax system. Many young women have multiple children from different fathers, and claim more in benefits and housing. Sadly they often turn to prescribed 'meds' and illegal drugs to relive the boredom of their wasted lives. From there addiction soon follows. They claim to be poor, yet all have TV / Sat telly and mobiles, cigarettes and booze!

Often they claim 'Mental Health' (The latest overused term in the press etc..) as a reason for not gaining meaningful employment; and further abuse the system. I was in the local shop just yesterday waiting in line for the till. A young girl spoke to a fit lad of about 20 years and asked 'Hows your new job going with the post office?'' He replied ''I couldn't stand all the walking it stressed me out, I'm on the sick now...mental health in'it!''

There is plenty of work available in the UK which does not require a degree or qualification; yet the government do not put them to work with the reward of the benefit system. I am sure if they did self esteem would go up and this bored society would shape up and take less drugs! Or dont give them 'benefit' cash in hand to spend on drugs; give them vouchers to redeem for essential food and heat at designated stores. There would be less need for charity 'food banks' also.
 
Stateside speaking.....Which "War On ________ " (fill in the blank) have we won? These Wars are like boats - a hole in the water that you pour money into.
The old adage, "Drugs are illegal because they're dangerous" or Drugs are dangerous because they're illegal"? A question that Playboy magazine asked many years ago, and a great issue it was for that alone. How is Amsterdam?

There are tons of ways to self destruct and to each their own.......don't make me pay in any way for your cure or prevention and I won't make you pay for mine. Erp....... too late, a caring civilization has gotten involved and now the neighbors hate each other for what they are (or aren't), and for whether they're paying or receiving.
 
Exploding Coffin Emporium said:
Drug addiction is a complex issue to solve and there’s no one size fits all solution. Sometimes I feel like a societal shift in attitude towards treatment and prevention will go further than anything. Even when we look at countries like Malaysia, where the death penalty for possession and trafficking hangs over the addcits head, we still see a rise in use.

Escape is the cause of usage. While many addictions are born from innocuous ventures, escape is always the end product. Escape from poverty, pain, or withdrawal, it doesn’t matter. When the need for escape has been resolved, so will be the the active addiction. I say active, because the addiction will always be there, but the call to pursue will be diminished. Even if we manage to ravage supply lines people will find a way to escape, meth and krokodil are prime examples of that.

We’ve made strides in the right direction, the narcotic initiative is a big one pointed out earlier by jpdevol. We have a national database that gets checked now when you go to fill high profile scripts, no more hopping from pharmacy to pharmacy. I feel 650skull hit it on the head as well, investment and support in people will go a long way. Right now our general attitude is take in the stray dog, feed it for a few days until it is just healthy enough, and then put it back on the street and maybe this time it will do better. If one is fortunate enough to have good insurance or family support this can take it a further, but without those resources creatures of habit will return to what they know. If we help cure the addict, it will inevitably crush the supplier.
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I largely agree. I have had several first-hand experiences with folks in recovery; it's a very hard struggle. Just as with alcoholism a "change in people, places and things" increase the chances for success.

Drugs as escape or entertainment: yes, in the beginning. After some time, most addicts desire to quit, but the pain of withdrawal is frightening and often requires help. Once sober, the recovery is very fragile and one's environment is fraught with pitfalls. The risk of overdose is greatest to the recovering, sober addict that slips, as their system (now clean) isn't conditioned to the dose they used before.

Our streets are awash in illicit drugs, unlike bars and liquor stores, suppliers don't need zoning approval, don't ID and never close. My hope, for destroying at least one major supply source, is to reduce availability and increase the chances of successful recovery.

Perhaps - someday - a pill (likely an implant) will be invented that cures addiction. Until then, shall we fiddle while Rome burns?
 
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Like they say about AA: The success rate is pitifully low....
'til you compare it with the success rate of any other program.
Random thoughts; The addict has to do more than want to quit. They have to be willing to, want to, change how they live.
Without that you might as well throw the time, effort, money up the air on a windy day.
As in past versions of this epidemic, resources are best spent preventing fresh victims rather than trying to change behavior of those addicted.
Wife saw, heard enough as a Member of the local PD to become extremely frustrated about use of Narcan on OD'rs time after time after...........
 
Folks, it saddens me to think this way, but we found out the hard way during Prohibition that banning substances that people are determined to use in spite of the law is an exercise in futility. Some changes that make folks less economically desperate would go farther and cost less than harsher enforcement, longer sentences, etc. to slowing the spread of addiction (and yes, I know economic distress is not the sole driver, but it's a big one. Condolences to all who've lost loved ones to the opiate plague).
 
grizld1 said:
Folks, it saddens me to think this way, but we found out the hard way during Prohibition that banning substances that people are determined to use in spite of the law is an exercise in futility. Some changes that make folks less economically desperate would go farther and cost less than harsher enforcement, longer sentences, etc. to slowing the spread of addiction (and yes, I know economic distress is not the sole driver, but it's a big one. Condolences to all who've lost loved ones to the opiate plague).
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Prohibition made the cartels rich!
 
Re. China and fentanyl, the Chinese have long memories. From their perspective they're simply getting their own back. The British trade in opium brought about massive rates of addiction in 19th Century China. The Imperial Chinese government banned opium imports, and the British fought and won two wars for the privilege of selling opium in China. Quite a few old money families in New England became wealthy or wealthier in the Chinese opium trade. What goes around comes around.
 
The reason (a decade ago) that your pseudoephedrine got taken behind the pharmacy counter and – in some areas – limits placed on the quantity purchased was it was the primary ingredient (dry-cell lithium batteries, ammonia) in homemade meth. It was a big problem and not only did it affect users, but the landlords that owned housing where the meth was made got stuck with big-ass hazardous waste cleanup bills and their units declared uninhabitable by the local health dept. until inspected clean. The government did a good job of shutting that down.

Great opportunity for the Cartels that quickly responded to the new market opportunity and switched a lot of capacity (from heroin, pot, and coke) to meth. That capacity, over the last decade, has grown – perhaps a hundred-fold.

Nobody would make meth like that now as it would be more expensive than Cartel meth. There will always be a substance and a supply.
 
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grizld1 said:
Re. China and fentanyl, the Chinese have long memories. From their perspective they're simply getting their own back. The British trade in opium brought about massive rates of addiction in 19th Century China. The Imperial Chinese government banned opium imports, and the British fought and won two wars for the privilege of selling opium in China. Quite a few old money families in New England became wealthy or wealthier in the Chinese opium trade. What goes around comes around.
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FDR's mums family comes to mind immediately, the Delano's. That thought leads to the Kennedys.
 

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