How-To: Permanent Magnet Alternator Swap (Also known as the Banshee Swap)

I am no mechanic so this is probably a dumb question but.... As far as the TDC timing marks are these just for later use or does the timing need to be reset after doing the PMA swap?
 
XSLeo said:
Gapper, On the stock alternator power was sent on the yellow wire to the safety relay. On the early models this power tripped the relay and turned off power to the starter relay so the starter won't work when the engine is running.
On the later models, late 78 and 79 still had the headlight on/off switch. In 80 they did away with the on/off switch and the safety relay turned the headlight on. You will need the do a few changes to bypass the safety relay.
I haven't worked with a late 78-79, but looking at a diagram, just unplugging the safety relay might let the headlight switch do the job. You might need to nypass the reserve lighting unit too.
Click to expand...

Problem I'm having on my 78.

Yellow goes to the safety relay, and affects the headlight somehow.

Brown wire terminates in old regulator plug, but seems to affect the rear brake light.
 
wacko said:
I am no mechanic so this is probably a dumb question but.... As far as the TDC timing marks are these just for later use or does the timing need to be reset after doing the PMA swap?
Click to expand...

It's not important now, but if you ever want to check/set your timing or adjust your valves you will need it.
 
OK, so I've set up my system using Hugh's adapter plate & RR, and I got a Banshee timing plate/flywheel and a Suzuki VZ800 stator (98). I haven't actually connected the R/R to the wiring harness yet. With a fully-charged battery, I turned on the bike (it's running just off the battery, the charging system is set-up but not connected) and tested the voltage coming out of the R/R. It measured at 1.4 volts. Is that normal? I checked the battery, and it measured 13.? volts, just to make sure I was on the correct setting. Shouldn't I be getting more voltage out of the R/R? I revved it up a bunch and it read a constant 1.4 volts. I'm no electrician, but my intuition would tell me it should be 14v when I'm revving it. Do I have a problem with my system?

I'm very excited to get it working. I've been riding my bike for the last two months with a dead charging system, and I've been limited to about 20 miles roundtrip so I can make sure my battery doesn't die on me. Thanks for all the tips, everyone!
 
BrookieDC said:
OK, so I've set up my system using Hugh's adapter plate & RR, and I got a Banshee timing plate/flywheel and a Suzuki VZ800 stator (98). I haven't actually connected the R/R to the wiring harness yet. With a fully-charged battery, I turned on the bike (it's running just off the battery, the charging system is set-up but not connected) and tested the voltage coming out of the R/R. It measured at 1.4 volts. Is that normal? I checked the battery, and it measured 13.? volts, just to make sure I was on the correct setting. Shouldn't I be getting more voltage out of the R/R? I revved it up a bunch and it read a constant 1.4 volts. I'm no electrician, but my intuition would tell me it should be 14v when I'm revving it. Do I have a problem with my system?

I'm very excited to get it working. I've been riding my bike for the last two months with a dead charging system, and I've been limited to about 20 miles roundtrip so I can make sure my battery doesn't die on me. Thanks for all the tips, everyone!
Click to expand...

If you don't have the Reg/Rectifier hooked to some sort of battery (stand alone is ok) then you won't get a proper reading out of the PMA... It has to have a battery/capacitor hooked up to it to charge properly... Try that...
 
OK, well with it hooked up it runs fine, though I'm still not sure if it's charging.

Now I don't have a headlight :(

I tried disabling the reserve headlight crappo, but still no go (I short-circuited the blue-black and the blue-yellow that go into the reserve). I've got an '83 SJ with a Boyer ignition. My wiring diagram shows a brown wire that comes out of the old R/R, along with the red, that appears to be a part of the power circuit. Should this get wired into something? I've currently just got the black-to-black and the red-red hooked up.
 
BrookieDC said:
OK, well with it hooked up it runs fine, though I'm still not sure if it's charging.

Now I don't have a headlight :(

I tried disabling the reserve headlight crappo, but still no go (I short-circuited the blue-black and the blue-yellow that go into the reserve). I've got an '83 SJ with a Boyer ignition. My wiring diagram shows a brown wire that comes out of the old R/R, along with the red, that appears to be a part of the power circuit. Should this get wired into something? I've currently just got the black-to-black and the red-red hooked up.
Click to expand...

This may come of harsh, but just ditch the entire stock wiring harness... You'll be miles ahead and you'll know exactly what goes where... The stock wiring harness is a nightmare :laugh:
 
As Punkskalr says, rewire the whole thing.
But to answer your questions. The PMA has no yellow wire to hook to the safety relay. On your 83 the safety relay sends power to the headlight. You need to bypass the safety relay too. You do this by unplugging the safety relay and jumping the red/yellow to the blue/black. This gets the headlight to light.
Jump the two red/whites together. this will let the starter work.
Now you can remove the safety relay.
The brown wire that ran to the alternator was not a power out, it was power in. The brown wire supplied popwer to the brushes and the reg/rec controled the ground to power the rotor.
Leo
 
No, it's not too harsh. I am strongly leaning that way - the stock wiring is waaaaay over-engineered. I just don't have the time to do a complete re-wire right now. I have already ditched a ton of the stock relays etc so now there are endless plugs hanging about, and I can barely remember what they used to go to.

Does anyone with an '80+ that has converted to PMA have a workaround for the headlight? I see from other posts in this thread that others have had the same issue, but I don't see a solution. I read that to ditch the Headlight Reserve, one must jump the blue/black and blue/yellow...

Edit: Thanks, Leo! That sounds about right. I'll make those corrections in the short term. When it gets too hot to ride next summer, I'll do a complete rewire.

Thanks for the great kit and info, Hugh! Glad to be charging reliably again.
 
is there a list of flywheels that work on the 650 PMA conversion or do i need the flywheel that come with the stator from the "list" of stators someone posted?
i'm concerned about the fit in the side cover and the taper on the crankshaft. this will be a points ignition initially...
thanks yall.
 
mookie said:
is there a list of flywheels that work on the 650 PMA conversion or do i need the flywheel that come with the stator from the "list" of stators someone posted?
i'm concerned about the fit in the side cover and the taper on the crankshaft. this will be a points ignition initially...
thanks yall.
Click to expand...

Yep, there is only 1 Flywheel that works without any other modifications. Banshee Flywheel. There are few others with a similar taper, but they are too large OD and don't seem to charge as well, so I've abandoned any R&D to make them work since the Banshee Flywheel is pretty easy to get ahold of...

I carry them in my store now if you need one ($90 NEW), or you can find them used from time to time...
 
Speaking from the viewpoint of someone who just went through the process, I would recommend getting the whole shebang from Hugh's shop (he's not paying me to say this, I promise). I bought his adapter and rec/reg, and sourced all the other parts independently to try to save some money. In the end, I only saved about $40, but in the process I ordered a stator that was wrong, which I now have to turn around and sell. It's nice to get it all from one place and not worry about components that will or won't work.
 
i've thought about this and i tend to agree.as soon as i can rustle up 300 dollars i think i'll order his kit and be done with it.
 
I found a NOS Electrosport 3-phase stator. It appears to be the same thing Hugh sells.

IMO, it's easy to find the other parts for cheap, but unless I watch a person pull a flywheel myself (with the proper tool), I'm not willing to chance buying a used one. I'll be getting the adaptor and flywheel from him.
 
Beau said:
I found a NOS Electrosport 3-phase stator. It appears to be the same thing Hugh sells.
.
Click to expand...

I DO NOT use Electrosport Stators any longer... I used them for about 1 month, and I had way to many issues with them sadly... Just a sidenote, I don't want people to think I sell something that I do not...
 
tried to read most of this post and have learned a lot. i am going to pick up my stator bracket and the flywheel monday, so im guessing the banshee stator does not work with this setup? sorry if it is a dumb question. didn't know if it wasn't 3 phase or something.
 

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