jimmy5090
XS650 Addict
Just found the timing bracket for $10 and flywheel for $50 on Bansheehq.com forum. Way better pricing than on ebay. Some guys are selling the flywheel for $35 on the banshee forum.
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How-To: Permanent Magnet Alternator Swap (Also known as the Banshee Swap)
- Thread starter Punkskalar
- Start date
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- electrical engine how to
I have a 1980 XS650. I am thinking about doing the permanent Magnet swap and i understand most of it. However what confuses me is what do i do with the rest of the wires.
I understand that the new system connects to the reg/rec and then the two wires run to the battery. however on the stock system there are many other wires that the alternator connect to before it goes to the battery. how do i reincorporate those wires back into the system?
Thank you
I understand that the new system connects to the reg/rec and then the two wires run to the battery. however on the stock system there are many other wires that the alternator connect to before it goes to the battery. how do i reincorporate those wires back into the system?
Thank you
gapper
XS650 Enthusiast
ok so i have installed my PMA from Hugh. went fairly well, just unpluged wiring harness and hooked up the regulator to alt, then ran wires to battery and ground..
firts time started then shot to 4500 rpm.. shut down was worried i screwed something up... checking it out and then seen the throttle cable was stuck.. adjusted it and volia runs great, charging at idle and works good.
i hooked up the neutral safety switch and the neutral light works, but no head light...
checked the wiring, but not sure if maybe i did not hook up a wire somewhere or something?
firts time started then shot to 4500 rpm.. shut down was worried i screwed something up... checking it out and then seen the throttle cable was stuck.. adjusted it and volia runs great, charging at idle and works good.
i hooked up the neutral safety switch and the neutral light works, but no head light...
checked the wiring, but not sure if maybe i did not hook up a wire somewhere or something?
KSAL
XS650 Enthusiast
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Mark,
Those other wires you are talking about are probably off of the stock stator, those are going to be what controls your timing. I ran into the same thing with my bike, Because we are 1980 and after we have a CDI (?) ignition system where the timing for the bike is based off of the stock rotor. When you remove that and go with the far better banshee system you will have to do a new ignition system as well to make up for the lack of a timing system. I did the PAMCO kit form mikesxs and it works AWESOME? It is the least expensive from the bunch that you can get for aftermarket ignitions and it is also very easy to install! All the instructions are on the PAMCO site. Hope that helps you.
All that you need to do though like it says at the beginning is hook up the plug off the new stator to the to the one from the stock system, then hook up a black to ground and red to positive and the banshee system is installed!
Those other wires you are talking about are probably off of the stock stator, those are going to be what controls your timing. I ran into the same thing with my bike, Because we are 1980 and after we have a CDI (?) ignition system where the timing for the bike is based off of the stock rotor. When you remove that and go with the far better banshee system you will have to do a new ignition system as well to make up for the lack of a timing system. I did the PAMCO kit form mikesxs and it works AWESOME? It is the least expensive from the bunch that you can get for aftermarket ignitions and it is also very easy to install! All the instructions are on the PAMCO site. Hope that helps you.
All that you need to do though like it says at the beginning is hook up the plug off the new stator to the to the one from the stock system, then hook up a black to ground and red to positive and the banshee system is installed!
Mark, on the harness side of the plugs that went to the reg/rec can be used to send the power from the new reg/rec to the battery and ground. The green and brown can just be left unused.
Gapper, On the stock alternator power was sent on the yellow wire to the safety relay. On the early models this power tripped the relay and turned off power to the starter relay so the starter won't work when the engine is running.
On the later models, late 78 and 79 still had the headlight on/off switch. In 80 they did away with the on/off switch and the safety relay turned the headlight on. You will need the do a few changes to bypass the safety relay.
I haven't worked with a late 78-79, but looking at a diagram, just unplugging the safety relay might let the headlight switch do the job. You might need to nypass the reserve lighting unit too.
On the 80 up the RLU bypass should work to get the headlight to light but it will be on all the time.
I'm sure others have more experience with these later models. So I hope they will chime in.
Leo
Gapper, On the stock alternator power was sent on the yellow wire to the safety relay. On the early models this power tripped the relay and turned off power to the starter relay so the starter won't work when the engine is running.
On the later models, late 78 and 79 still had the headlight on/off switch. In 80 they did away with the on/off switch and the safety relay turned the headlight on. You will need the do a few changes to bypass the safety relay.
I haven't worked with a late 78-79, but looking at a diagram, just unplugging the safety relay might let the headlight switch do the job. You might need to nypass the reserve lighting unit too.
On the 80 up the RLU bypass should work to get the headlight to light but it will be on all the time.
I'm sure others have more experience with these later models. So I hope they will chime in.
Leo
I'm also wondering about the CDI ignition. I do not have any questions in how to do the stator and flywheel swap, but what to do with the ignition after that. I have read on other sites that you need to change to the old style or a Pamco ignition. thanks for the help
Just a bit of clarification. The XS650 never in all the years of production did it have a CDI, Capacitive Discharge Ignition. From 1970 to 1979 they used a points ignition. 1980 and after used a TCI, Transister Controled Ignition.
Swapping from the stock Feild Excited Alternator to a PMA, Permanent Magnet Alternator on the 80 up TCI bikes you need to replace the TCI with the points system or an Aftermarket Electronic ignition. The TCI uses a magnet in the rotor to trugger the TCI, you lose this when you do the swap.
There are several options on the ignition. The Pamco is very popular. Simple in design and to install. It has the best customer support in this industry or most any other.
Leo
Swapping from the stock Feild Excited Alternator to a PMA, Permanent Magnet Alternator on the 80 up TCI bikes you need to replace the TCI with the points system or an Aftermarket Electronic ignition. The TCI uses a magnet in the rotor to trugger the TCI, you lose this when you do the swap.
There are several options on the ignition. The Pamco is very popular. Simple in design and to install. It has the best customer support in this industry or most any other.
Leo
Questions on PM conversion:
Does the reg/rect need to be mounted to the frame for a ground or isolated from the frame?
My stator only has 3 yellow wires, do I need to ground it somehow back to the reg/rect and then to the battery or capacitor or frame?
Do I need a heavy guage wire from the reg/rect out to my fuse then switch?
Thanks in advance
Does the reg/rect need to be mounted to the frame for a ground or isolated from the frame?
My stator only has 3 yellow wires, do I need to ground it somehow back to the reg/rect and then to the battery or capacitor or frame?
Do I need a heavy guage wire from the reg/rect out to my fuse then switch?
Thanks in advance
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Hedkasecycles
XS650 New Member
The reg/rec does not ground itself through the body of the unit. You will have a ground wire which you will need to hook up to the frame if you're running your grounds through the frame or wire it back to the negative terminal of the battery.
The three yellow wires go directly to the reg/rec in no perticular order.
No you do not need a heavy gauge wire but i would not use a wimpy wire like 22 gauge wire. 14 to 18 gauge would work.
The three yellow wires go directly to the reg/rec in no perticular order.
No you do not need a heavy gauge wire but i would not use a wimpy wire like 22 gauge wire. 14 to 18 gauge would work.
So I tried using a capacitor with this swap and my bike would not fire, then I used one of those small .8ah 12v batteries and it was dead after 10 min of riding, so now I'm back to a regular battery. Does this mean something is wrong with the system? Or do those small batteries just not charge well since they are meant to be trickle charged?
Punkskalar
Hugh's HandBuilt
Go get one... Seriously, for about $12 you'll have one that can do everything you'll ever need on a bike...
Purplezinger
XS650 Addict
Get a meter, learn how to use it! You must have a meter to test most electrical issues.
mvonwahlde
XS650 Enthusiast
Man, those woodruff keys are hard to find in that size. Lowes? Nope. Ace? Nope. Home Depot? Ha. Got the next size up and spent a good time getting it down to size. It's all hooked up now...
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ArcherSix
XS650 Enthusiast
Okay, so I'm in the middle of the swap. Got the old stator and rotor off, and the new parts assembled and will install after I fit the woodruf key to mate the new rotor to the shaft. Then I'll have to worry about hooking up all the wires.
I have a 1977 model, I replaced the wiring harness a few years ago with one that is supposed to be the same as stock from Mike's. First thing I noticed is that the new out line from the alternator has only 3 connections, and the plug on my 'stock' harness has six connectors. How do I mate these together?
Keep in mind that electrical matters give me nightmares...lol
I have a 1977 model, I replaced the wiring harness a few years ago with one that is supposed to be the same as stock from Mike's. First thing I noticed is that the new out line from the alternator has only 3 connections, and the plug on my 'stock' harness has six connectors. How do I mate these together?
Keep in mind that electrical matters give me nightmares...lol
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The three wires from the stator hook to your reg/rec. The out put of the reg/rec hooks one wire to battery positive, the other to a good frame ground or right back to battery negitive. You won't use that 6 wire plug.
Leo
Leo
ArcherSix
XS650 Enthusiast
Thanks Leo. As I read up on this stuff it's becoming somewhat more clear. I'm thinking that I'll just strip off all my old wiring and follow one of the simplified diagrams I've seen on here.
