1984 XS650 Special NO SPARK

dubepj said:
Has anyone gone back to points. Can this be done?? Only issue I can see is the newer models did not have bushings in the cam shaft.
Click to expand...
I think the problem is getting the missing bushings in the cam. I think I have read hear that the cam may not be correctly sized for the bushing since the were not being install anymore. If I remember right a few have posted that they broke their cams trying to press the bushings in. I could be wrong.
 
GLJ said:
I think the problem is getting the missing bushings in the cam. I think I have read hear that the cam may not be correctly sized for the bushing since the were not being install anymore. If I remember right a few have posted that they broke their cams trying to press the bushings in. I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
I think you're right Greg. I remember the same. Prolly need to ream the cam to a slight interference fit.
 
Thinking out loud
The machine did not have points from the factory
So there is always a risk trying to adapt to something that was newer there to begin with
Most likely it is possible
Now i see mr GLJ post here --- A major manufacturer does not put in man hours
fabricating a seat for an old bushing one not intended to use.
There is also the parts that you don't have I would assume
Advance rod / Coils / Advance Unit with springs / Points / Capacitor / Bushings
Dont know if the frame has mount points for two coils which by the way do not have the best reputation

There is also slight differences in advance specs between years. No major thing I do believe.

I don't know the prices today but when I got problems with the advance unit I went for Boyer because then the advance unit in itself was so expensive E 62 -- $ 73
https://www.xs650shop.de/en/cylinderhead-cylinder/729/advance-unit-compl.

You need to have a strobe light for adjusting timing each year more or less.

Having said that I myself at times are thinking about going back to Points but my bike had it from the beginning
I have all the parts including bushings.
Even though they are worn It would be doable . With new springs and serviced bushings.
I had lots of problems With the points ... Probably world record holder kicking an XS 650 most number of times.
Weak charging / Not serviced bushings ( did not know of them ) / Oily inside / Substandard wiring
But the bike ran excellent middle and top rev . That is the reason i think of go back to points
 
If I was going to totally get rid of a TCI ignition I would not go backwards to points. I would go with Boyer. Very dependable. You will still need to do whats necessary to get bushings in the cam. The Boyer system needs them also. If you want to back to points PM me, I have everything as far as parts go except the cam bushings.
 
GLJ said:
I think the problem is getting the missing bushings in the cam. I think I have read hear that the cam may not be correctly sized for the bushing since the were not being install anymore. If I remember right a few have posted that they broke their cams trying to press the bushings in. I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

From what i understand it's not the cam, but the head, where the bushings slot into. Being cast the area where the bushing slide into has to be cleaned up and sized for the bushings. ..............If not, when the bushings are forced into a hole that is to small...........
 
A quick search brought up this thread. I know I've seen others.


image (1).jpg
 
Stand corrected, Of course its the cam internals for the bushings...............

A thought though. Is that damage caused by the cams not being reamed out or the aftermarket bushings the wrong size or a combination of both..........Swing arm bushings can be hit and miss when it comes to OD. Some have gone in ok, others not so much.
 
would really like to here from someone who has converted from newer electronic ignition back to points. What issues did you have. I have a list of all required components. Come to 220.00 Canadian including GST.
 
You are going to do it, already bought the parts needed.

Jim has posted one major problem. Destroying the cam.

On the factory setup for points the cam had 3 bushes, one in each end and one in the middle. Aftermarket bushes were sold for the 80-84 TCI model XS650 so Pamco Ignitions could be used. These only required 2 bushes. Points model advance rod is/was stationary, when used with a pamco it is locked to the cam and rotates.

if the 84 cam needs to be worked out to take bushes it may be easier to buy a good second hand 74-79 points model cam

Wiring has to be reworked. Use a 79SII diagram and an 82J/SJ, 83K/SK diagram
Condensers to be added to the coils.
2 coils.
Mechanical advance
Advance rod.............Caution, Aftermarket advance rods had an issue with being slightly longer than factory. Need to check that this issue has been rectified or is still an issue
 
There were actually 4 bushes, 2 in each end. One was a plain, solid bush, the other had grooves on the I.D. to hold grease for the advance rod.
 
Jim said:
A quick search brought up this thread. I know I've seen others.


View attachment 194502
Click to expand...

Came across this tip bit of information relating to Cam bushings. Knew this had been a problem before..........

Instillation of the advance rod bushings from MikesXS for the TCI motors.
Pamco Pete's Tip,..........Installing the pamco is easy, not too many tools needed. You will need a timing light.
If you got the kit from mikes the bushes that come with it needs to have the outer dimensions checked some have been to large for the cam and if forced into the cam it will split the end of the cam. they need to go in tight but not too tight.
I had 2 the were too large slightly I took a bic pen and some tape around the end of pen just large enough to put the bush on where it will stay there. then I put the pen into a drill then I got some 500 grit emery cloth.turned on the drill then while the bush was spinning used the emery cloth to sand off the outer side of the bush until I could get the bush to fit into the cam with some resistance.
 
Well guys now i have spark. Had to unplug the kickstand relay. Bike runs not bad. Leaking oil from the clutch push rod. Ordered the one piece push rod new bushing and new seal.
Parts should arrive Friday.
Took clutch apart also.
Any Ideas how to hold clutch hub to tighten nut. I don't have the tool that looks like a disc with a handle on it..Also how much torque please. I would welcome any and all ideas. Thanks.
 
I don't remember what I used when I worked on mine. Must have been c clamps because I didn't get any special tools. Hope you got more than one push rod seal. If it's the one I am thinking of, they are tricky to install and get damaged easily. Probably where your oil is leaking from.
 
Ok guys I have it narrowed down to my Rotor be No good.
OEM # is 3G1-81650-10-00
Does anyone know if this was used on other Yamaha bikes? Like the XS1100 or others? Off the the used parts guy tomorrow and maybe if i tell him what bike it fits it may help locate one.
 
dubepj said:
Ok guys I have it narrowed down to my Rotor be No good.
OEM # is 3G1-81650-10-00
Does anyone know if this was used on other Yamaha bikes? Like the XS1100 or others? Off the the used parts guy tomorrow and maybe if i tell him what bike it fits it may help locate one.
Click to expand...
That rotor was just used on the 650. Buying used might get you a few yrs use.... or not....they're 40 to 50 yrs old at this point.
Shipping to and from Canada sucks, but I rewind 'em if you want to go that route. Have a look here.
 
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