Frozen tight Alan head screw, now what?

[Boog]

I am in the process of rebuilding my fuel pump in my 2006 Stratoliner when I hit a snag. The fuel pump is inside of a secondary fuel tank. You can see the silver disk in the photo beneth the brace, that is where I need to get to.

But to get to it, I need to remove the black brace across the frame. This brace has two, 4mm Alan head screws holding it in place. Both are absolutely stuck.

So far I have used a cheater wrench with the Alan wrench and beat them with a hammer. I have beat the head of the screws with a hammer also. And I used a butane torch to heat the heads, all to no avail.

I have sprayed WD40 around them for two days now.

I have a manual impact but not the correct bit for the 4mm head. I hope to find one today and maybe this will do it.

Others have suggested I heat the underside with a heat gun (which I do not yet have) since there are open fuel lines beneath the brace.

Also, I have been advised to use a chisel or a cutting wheel on it.

I look at this as being a good lesson before I start rebuilding Rusty. I know it will have lots of stuck screws, nuts and bolts. Is there any other techniques that work for you guys to loosen stuck screws without damage?

 

[Downeaster]

Main suggestion is to get some real penetrant. WD40, tho better than nothing, basically sucks as a penetrant. My personal favorite commercial penetrant is PB Blaster. 50/50 ATF and Acetone works well. Kroil is well thought of but spendy.

Soak, tap, soak, tap repeat. A manual impact may well help and again is better than nothing but I've found my 1/2 inch drive Milwaukee impact is the bees knees for that sort of work.

And patience. Lots and lots of patience.

Edit: The impact is NOT half-inch drive. It has a 1/4" hex shaft collet. I can plug in any tool or bit with a 1/4" hex shaft. Besides Phillips and Torx drivers, I have socket adapters in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch. 99% of the time, a socket on a 3/8th adapter gets 'er done.

Edit, Part Deux: Be careful with socket-style Allen bits and impact drivers. I suspect part of the problem is the Craftsman/Husky quality bits I have, but the Allen portion is VERY brittle and the repeated shocks from the impact drive have a nasty tendency to snap them off.

 

[arcticXS]

I assume it is button head M6 screws, as they have a 4 mm hex. Generally, regular Alllen keys are a poor tool for this type of fasteners. (Actually a poor tool, periode)
A socket or T handle is much better. And a brand new one with sharp corner is preferable. A socket can be tapped with a hammer, a key cannot. If the Allen key already has slipped, peening the screw head with a small ball peen hammer may tighten up the hex a little bit. Then tap the socket in with the hammer. Last resort would be to hammer in slightly oversize Torx bit or socket. Try several, and use one size larger than the largest one that slips into the hex. This is my favorite trick.
Or use a Dremel to cut a screwdriver slot

 

[Boog]

@arcticXS I broke the t-handle already. I will try the Torx bit soon as I have a couple the right size I think.
@Downeaster Thanks, the patients bit is starting to wear thin but I do have another bike to ride at the moment so many that is the best tactic. I will get better penetrant oil after work today and try again.

 

[kshansen]

Hitting the head in the direction you need to turn it with a chisel can sometimes loosen it enough to get it to move, just need to replace with new on reassembly.

And sometimes as a last resort a drill bit down the center of that button head to pop it off. The problem then is getting the threaded part of the screw out, but sometimes once something is out of the way you can grab the lower end with vice-grips or mole-grips as they are called some places.

 

[arcticXS]

Generally, button head, countersunk and low profile internal hex (Allen head) are often problematic to loosen. This due to the small and shallow hex.
If replacing oem fasteners, Torx drive versions are a better alternative, and also flanged bolts with a smaller head in some cases. (Like M6 with flange and 8 mm hex head, and so on.)

 

[kshansen]

Generally, button head, countersunk and low profile internal hex (Allen head) are often problematic to loosen.

You don't have to tell me that about the countersunk bolts/screws. My Sportster has four of those on the side-cover where you add trans oil and check the primary chain adjustment. Just about every-time I need to remove one of those small covers at least one of the 1/4 inch countersunk screws will refuse to turn.

Thing is they are open on the inside to the oil for the transmission so the threads are perfectly lubed! So as soon as one starts to strip the allen socket I grab the drill and 3/16 bit. Carefully drilling till the head pops off then it's a simple matter of unscrewing the threaded end from the cover. I usually have a couple spare screws on hand just for that! Did that just over a week ago.

 

[Boog]

I just borrowed an electric impact from a workmate. Hopefully I will have success this afternoon when I get home.

 

[RustiePyles]

I'd try a impact driver (armstrong powered), and as @Downeaster stated, real penetrant well do far better than WD40. I also prefer PB Blaster and for really tough stuff I use acetone and brake fluid, but be careful with that stuff it WILL strip paint.

 

[arcticXS]

Boog,
Any luck with your stuck bolts?

 

[Jan_P]

Might not be the right solution here .
But something that works for me I try first -- is a 1/4 inch ratchet with an extension and the correct bit
I press down as hard as I can on the ratchet head ..with left hand
With the extension I can see if it is straight and not " Climbing out " or so
Then with the right hand I turn the handle . One can notice if it deforming the head or is solid
And gradual apply more force

 

[Jim]

Just out of curiosity... is there a nut under that fastener instead of a nutplate as we're all assuming?

 

[Boog]

They are out finally! I went through so many iterations of problem solving here but it was brute force in the end that prevailed. I got a 32 oz. ball peen hammer and a cold chisel. After about ten minutes of hitting it way harder than I thought it needed, it finally gave up. Once loose from the last whack, it was easy to remove with just finger.

Look at that, clean, not a hit of rust.

No nut underneath @Jim, just the threads into the tab on the frame.

The wind chill had dropped to near freezing, the wind was whipping madly about me and the bike. We had a little drizzle, a few flurries and my hands froze. Being that it is spring, the wind stirred up the pollen enough my eyes were trying to close on me. And then I got a dang nose bleed and didn't even get into a fight. Safety goggles got used too when one of those metal chips came off a screw. It hit me square in the center of the left lens.

It took another 45 minutes to get the darn fuel pump out. And once it was out and laying on my work bench, aka the tail gate of my truck, I discovered the replacement parts are not a direct fit after all. I am going to go ahead and buy the full assembly from Yamaha now.

 

[Mailman]

They are out finally! I went through so many iterations of problem solving here but it was brute force in the end that prevailed. I got a 32 oz. ball peen hammer and a cold chisel. After about ten minutes of hitting it way harder than I thought it needed, it finally gave up. Once loose from the last whack, it was easy to remove with just finger.

Look at that, clean, not a hit of rust.

No nut underneath @Jim, just the threads into the tab on the frame.

The wind chill had dropped to near freezing, the wind was whipping madly about me and the bike. We had a little drizzle, a few flurries and my hands froze. Being that it is spring, the wind stirred up the pollen enough my eyes were trying to close on me. And then I got a dang nose bleed and didn't even get into a fight. Safety goggles got used too when one of those metal chips came off a screw. It hit me square in the center of the left lens.

It took another 45 minutes to get the darn fuel pump out. And once it was out and laying on my work bench, aka the tail gate of my truck, I discovered the replacement parts are not a direct fit after all. I am going to go ahead and buy the full assembly from Yamaha now.

Man! It’s just not your day!

 

[jetmechmarty]

The joys of wirkin’ on stuff. If we ever get in a spot where we might be sharing a drink, I’ve got some stories.
I home the Yammie parts go in smoothly.

 

[kshansen]

They are out finally! I went through so many iterations of problem solving here but it was brute force in the end that prevailed.
<snip>
Look at that, clean, not a hit of rust.

No nut underneath just the threads into the tab on the frame.

My next question is why such a long screw/bolt? From that picture it looks to be twice as long as needed to get full thread engagement! Any thing over that to me is just asking for either rust on threads to cause a problem in future or have it rub on something below like a wire harness.

Also unless there is a good reason other than "originality" I would replace that SOB with a good old fashioned hex head fastener, everything else around it is hex, with a touch of anti-seize for good measure!

 

[RustiePyles]

I discovered the replacement parts are not a direct fit after all.

What is this "Dywrecked Phit" you speak of? I am unfamiliar with this concept... Hope you got a can of anti-seize for the reassembly.

 

[Boog]

My next question is why such a long screw/bolt? From that picture it looks to be twice as long as needed to get full thread engagement! Any thing over that to me is just asking for either rust on threads to cause a problem in future or have it rub on something below like a wire harness.

Also unless there is a good reason other than "originality" I would replace that SOB with a good old fashioned hex head fastener, everything else around it is hex, with a touch of anti-seize for good measure!

These two will most likely be replace with some sort of bolt and not an Alan head. And I do agree they are way too long!