My 1977 XS650 Brat Build

If you've got dimples in the races from ball bearing wear or just don't like the idea of ball bearings then replace them but to do so just because it's "80's technology" doesn't substantiate the cost IMHO. Ball bearings are still used in all sorts of applications today. I reinstalled mine and it is as smooth as I could want it. No play, wobble, or catches in my front end but YMMV.
 
dilbone said:
If you've got dimples in the races from ball bearing wear or just don't like the idea of ball bearings then replace them but to do so just because it's "80's technology" doesn't substantiate the cost IMHO. Ball bearings are still used in all sorts of applications today. I reinstalled mine and it is as smooth as I could want it. No play, wobble, or catches in my front end but YMMV.
Click to expand...

Hi dilbone,
yeah, my stock headraces Brinelled out a fair while back and got upgraded to Timkens.
And those cup & cone crowded ball races are eighteen nineties technology, from back when they developed the modern bicycle.
And yes, they still use them on modern applications, including race bikes, because in the short run, (because all that a race bike needs is to survive some practice laps and a few races between rebuilds) they are lighter and have less friction than Timken races.
But a street bike has to survive through decades of use and neglect and Timkens are at least 5 times stronger and have far better longevity.
 
Today I took on the big job of wire brushing and sanding down all of the parts for the front end that I want to paint. I plan on picking up some self etching primer and paint. I wish I had the luxury of a big air compressor and spray gun, but i will have to use rattle cans.

The lowers took the most sanding. I used a wire wheel to get all of the what I believe to be clear coating off and sanded them down really good to roughen them up.
IMG_0755.jpg

IMG_0759.jpg
Everything taken apart and ready for paint

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So I took apart the tree to paint and found that one of the studs that go through to hold on the handle bars is bent, or appears to be bent. It looked fine all put together so should I leave it or replace it?

IMG_0757.jpg

IMG_0758.jpg

I am starting to look at the frame to see what all I can take off of it to clean it up. I originally thought I would cut off both supports for the rear pegs but on the right hand side the rear foot beg support has the bracket for the brake sensor and a little thing that the brake spring attaches to. Would it look weird to cut off one side and leave the other? I would at-least cut off the stud on the end and clean it up. or should I leave both of them or cut both off and find some other way to mount the bracket for brake sensor and stud for the spring? If anyone has done this please post some pictures.


I went ahead and pounded the races out of the frame. They actually came out pretty easy. I thought about leaving them again, but then i dropped all of the ball bearings on the floor and lost 5 or 6 :banghead: It looks like the kit is less than $50 bucks for tapered rollers so thats not too bad.
 
Hi dillon,
it's far easier to chop stuff off that it is to have an OhChrist! moment and weld it back on so be careful what you do.
It ain't all as easy as deciding to buy roller races after dumping your ball bearings on the floor.
BTW, give those outer cones a day in the freezer first and they'll tap in a lot easier.
 
Yeah, that handlebar riser is bent. It can be straightened. But, it's also a sign that the bike may have been in a wreck. So, need to double-check front end stuff, like bottom bracket (triple tree) squareness, fork tubes, ...etc.
 
I know the bike was wrecked twice. Once in 1981 by my grandpa, from what my dad told me it didn't even scratch the paint it was just low speed and dropped it. My dad wrecked it again mid 80's and it just dented in the tank, so i am going to guess that is when the riser was bent. The bike was then rode for another 20ish years before sitting but I will double check everything on the front end to make sure all is straight. to the naked eye it looks fine. I do believe the forks were replaced in the 80's to +6 over the original length. They are in very good condition with only a couple specs of rust here and there that should be very easy to clean off, but with me doing a brat style bike i am not sure 6+ over is what I need. Any thoughts? should i go back to stock length? I have read alot of being even lowering from stock length when doing a bobber/brat style.
 
I read about how to cut the relief slots and it looks pretty easy. nj1639- why would you have kept with the old style ball bearings? Are you not happy with the tapered rollers? From some threads I have read it sounds like they are much better than the old ball style. I found all of my ball bearings and cleaned up the old races. They are in good shape, so from the mixed post from you guys im not sure if I should put them back in and run the old school ball bearings or spend the $40 for tapered bearings. is it really hard to put in the tapered bearings?
 
It's easy to put the tapered bearings in....chill the races for an easy insertion, but from my experience I see no major improvement.
The ball bearings can get notched in their races....it's a feel kind of thing.
I believe that I've seen roller bearing replacements on Amazon that appear to look similar to the stock bearings, something that I'd consider over the tapered bearings but would look for feedback on their performance.
I put the tapered in the '83 before the enlightenment of notching the neck to be able to remove the races.......why would one need to take them out? Well, I needed to take them out for an xs750D fork swap......swapped the bearings out instead, would have been easier with the stock bearings and races.

There's a tendency to jump on the new and improved bandwagon parts upgrades, but at this point in time if it works why change?
Other opinions may vary..........
 
fredintoon, there were only 3 parts I spent more than what tapered bearings cost on my entire build. My gas tank, stainless spokes and pamco. My other bike is a 1986 electra glide...I don't mind older stuff and typically only replace things that are broken. Just a different philosophy I guess. To each his own.

Dillon, those lowers look better already. Making great progress.
 
Thanks Dilbone, I feel like I am making some progress. I wanted to get a couple coats of primer on today, but auto shop was out of the primer. I will try the other one tomorrow. All I worked on today was cleaning up my rear wheel and hub.

IMG_0762.jpg

Is is a black hub??????

IMG_0763.jpg

Nope! just 1/4 of old grease!!

I plan on getting the hub and rims powder coated black and laced with new stainless spokes.

All of the parts for my forks were mailed out today so I hope I get them in time for the weekend. I guess i still have a lot to do before putting them back together, like getting out the fork seals, and painting.

Thanks everyone for all of your input so far it has helped a lot. I hope to bring more photos of a lot more progress soon.
 

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