Need Serious Advice

littlebill31

littlebill31

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Ok, a couple weeks ago my '97 F-150 brokedown in the town where I grew up, about 3 hours away from where I live now. My family, being from there, told me to take it to a local mechanic. He came highly rated and I didn't, for obvious reasons, want to take it to a dealer. It would have also cost me $600.00 to tow it to my home.
So I had it towed the 2 miles to this mechanic. I told him what had happened while I was driving it and also told him that it had a previous tapping caused by coolant going into the oil. This is a common flaw with the 4.2L Ford engine. If you search this problem on the web, you will find tons on info on it. I didn't make it up.
He calls me back and tells me a cam lobe broke off caused by sludge build-up. I asked it the tapping from the coolant fouled oil could have contributed to this. He said there was no coolant in the oil. I then told him that the underside of the oil fill cap had green slime on it. He said that was just vaporized oil. What??? Green oil vapor.
He quotes me a price and he said that'll fix it. I then asked him, while he was at it, to check my brakes, which he never did.
My main concern was that if the price to fix it was close to a new engine, obviously I would go that way. A friend who works for Ford could have gotten me a brand new replacement engine for X amount of dollars.
3 days later this guy calls me and say's, "Well we got it to start, but there is a horrible tapping because coolant is in the oil". WTMF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
I then said, "I told you that twice before". No answer. Then he tells me it needs new lifters, rockers, and push rods, which will be several hundred dollars more. This would go over the new engine cost mark. I told him I would come pick it up, which I did the next day.
Yep, you guessed it, 30 miles down the road and blammo. Fucker quit again. Towed it my house, where it sits now. That happened yesterday. I haven't talked to him as of yet. I did call, but he was closed by then and I was not in the correct state of mind to talk anyway.
So, does anyone have any advise on what I should do? I'm being serious, I need advise on the proper way to recoup money from him.
It's complete bullshit that he did not listen to me about the tapping first. That he figured out it was the cam, but didn't notice the rockers, lifters, pushrods, or that coolant was in the oil until AFTER he had already done work, which I would have to pay for.
If I would have gotten an estimate over the cost of a new engine, then I would have done that, but instead I am out a bunch of money.
I would greatly appreciate any advise on this. I don't want to get into a verbal pissing match with this guy, that never works. I want my money back.
 
First off, I have never heard of a cam lobe breaking off. Wearing down, yes. Either way the cam should have been replaced, which in turn would mean new lifters. (rockers and pushrods, unless the pushrods were bent, and the rockers worn out not always the case). Considering you thought there was coolant in the oil, and told him so, it seems to me he is dishonest. Plain and simple. A lot of shops play on others stupidity, which you dont seem to be in the mechanically stupid class.
Sorry to say if ya paid him in cash, or by check ya probably wont ever get your money back. Maybe stop a credit card charge on the base of fraud?...not sure.
I do know of one situation where a guy placed a classified ad describing in the local newspaper his case about a dishonest shop, and he proved them to be so. he didnt get his money back. That cost the shop a lot of business without getting into a slander issue.
Good luck!
 
Good luck with that Bill. Sorry to say but the mechanic is like a doctor, he is only promising to do the work you asked him to do (or what HE thinks you asked him), even if you die as result he still wants to be paid. A rebuilt engine often does carry a performance guarantee. I put a rebuilt motor in a Dodge motor home years ago, it burned copious quantities of oil from the get go. The rebuilder replaced it with a second (good) engine at no charge to me. Goop on an oil cap is inconclusive, I have seen gooped up caps on short tripped engines that had no leaks. Hope you get satisfaction but small claims is your likely next resort. That can be tough small claims in HIS jurisdiction. A long time ago I was feuding with a carpet manufacturer over durability of his goods (bad). He threatened to go to court. I said sure, lets have at it, how do you think you are going to do in MY local court? He folded.
 
I agree with both of you.
I'm just wondering why, when I told him about a pre-existing problem, that had direct contact with the cam, he never checked it or checked any of the other parts for that matter. Wouldn't you think if a cam broke that you would check the other parts to see if they are damaged? Nothing ever brakes without hurting something else. Did he just put the cam in and that's it? No double checking the cam timing? No looking at the lifters or push rods, the valves? He told me the new cam would fix it.
I took it into my own hands to drive it away I understand, but he fixed half the problem, which I would have to pay for. I like to call it the "Shade tree mechanic guaranteed beer money". He knew I could get a new engine, I even said if it cost too much I would get one put in. So in my opinion, he did some work that I would have to pay for, then tried to get more money out of me by adding costs. Therefore putting more money in his pocket then what an engine replacement would cost.
 
It is unfortunate but true that even good mechanics mess up or the communications chain between you the owner of the shop and the wrench twister gets fouled up. I have been there too if it's any consolation.
I had a very similar deal, engine started to hammer. I towed it to a shop said open up, diagnose, report with expected cost to repair. He did. I paid him for his diagnosis and towed it to the Olds dealer who put in a Goodwrench engine for less than the independent could charge for repairs. I was really lucky that the engine waited until it was on the final hill up to my house on the way back from a 5,000 mile cross country trip to start hammering!
It was a loose tappet bolt at 130,000 miles that let the rocker arm bust a chunk out of the push rod guide. IIRC
 
Service advisor for 25 years here.

Does the guy work out of his back yard? If so you are pretty well screwed. It will cost you more in atty fees and lost time, etc than you will ever recover.

Does he own his own shop? Ask nicely for a refund, even a partial refund (after all he did do some work). No refund? Small claims court.

Does he work for someone else? Get the shop owner on the phone pronto. Ask nicely for a refund. No refund? Small claims court.

On the technical side of things: if coolant has been in the oil the bearings and crank are probably wiped and if it's sludged there could be other damage as well. It's certainly possible to do a crank/rod bearings/main bearings/rings/cam/lifters/etc yourself (BTDT more than once) but that is time and labor intensive. Plus, if you get the engine scattered and wind up having to get a reman unit, you have to reassemble the original motor for a core. More time etc lost. Was I in your shoes, I'd look into a reman long block, be done with it. Rock Auto shows long blocks for around $2150.00.
 
74 You can not concider down time because he is down any way. If he needs the truck immediately you are correct buy a short block.
 
There is a good chance he will make the truck right without charging you any more. Don't blow your stack yet. Talk to him up front saying you want it right and aren't prepared to pay any more; politely. If he then wants to leave you sit, go to small claims court. Might not win and might not collect, but it's your best chance. In my experience though, independents will make it right without charging more, unless of course it needs a new motor... Independents often take their sweet time though.
 
Wow! littlebill, that is what I was trying to warn you about...if the cam was wiped...being almost the top of the motor...then the crank and brgs would be affected also. Thats why I said no use putting a cam in a bad bottom end. If you need help getting a motor , I can get you some prices for new, used and rebuilt. Whether it be Ford or Jasper. Let me know. Man I am sorry that went down. Hope you can recoup some monies from that dude. Kev.


OOps didnt read all the posts......deja vu......offer still stands.....
 
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If he would have been honest and given me a total price, I would have gotten an engine and just paid him for the diagnosis. Instead, he did work and said it was fixed, then came back with the old, "Well it's gonna need...". No wonder people don't trust anyone. Perfect example.
 
talked to some guys in our shop....we have never done a cam in that motor. Always a long block , for the simple reasons stated before. If the cam is wiped...I doubt it was broken.....then the mains and rods are toast. That has been a good motor for us.....other than the internal coolant leaks. Just like the old 2.9 and 2.8 v6...same deal.
Good luck littlebill....lemme know can I help.Kev.

p.s. Love that xs you built. Wish it werent so cold , so's I could ride. Dont know how you are doin it.
 
Well I called him. He started yelling right when I said it broke again. Told me he wasn't a mind reader, there was no way to tell that the lifters, push rods, or rockers were damaged until he put in the new cam and ran the engine. He doesn't have the old cam because, apparently in the 12 hours between me talking to him and getting to his shop, the salvage guy had already come. I know nothing about vehicles. "You tell the fucking Ford guy to call me cuz he's full of shit". I told him a Ford mechanic told me to ask him why he didn't check the valve train for damage before putting in a new cam.
(I actually cleaned it up a bunch) I was totally calm until he told me I knew nothing about vehicles, which I still didn't yell or cuss, he was doing enough of that. When I said I told him about the pre-existing coolant in the oil, he said, "No, I told you about it" and "There was no way to tell until I ran the engine".
This guy is a trip.
Jay's Automotive
304 Nilles Ln
Fallston, Md 21047
He still never remembers me telling him to fix my brakes.
 
WTF, he replaced the cam and didn't look at the lifters? :wtf: I don't care if they are roller type, they need CLOSE examination if a lobe is gone and me, I would replace every damn one of them if one lobe was wiped. That's a good question: since that engine has a roller cam, how the heck would a lobe break or wipe out? That's more a flat tappet thing.

Okay, it's time to quit screwing around with him and go to small claims court. Be sure to bring your repair order showing the complaint and his repair, you will need that for sure. The more documentation, the better. Warning: it will still wind up being a 'he said, he said' so the best you can hope for is a partial refund and covering your court costs.
 
He said there is no way to tell until the engine is running, my ass. He's, " Got 30 yrs as a mechanic and you [me] don't know anything about these trucks".
He's a complete thief and a junk ass, shade tree, back alley mechanic.
I'm getting my ducks in a row right now.
I'm trying to find out if there is a Ford shop manual that shows the process of changing the cam and what else you are supposed to do. That way I can prove he didn't repair it correctly and just willy-nilly did it.
 
Don't know if it'll help but I'm a member at this forum.

It's been a forum that is almost as helpful and friendly as this 650 forum is.

Good luck.
 
Water in the oil will make the oil a milkey color. Justed bought a 1996 Pickup leaking intake gaskets. Replace my self $28.00 rear brakes leaking rear axil seal around around $200.00 not done yet service soon light winking at me Computer has me by the balls The haynes manual not worth a Fuck. Sorry to hear about your bad luck with the van the dealers cost but good honest repair shops are few and far between. Might be better to buy a new van.
 
Can you replace a cam in a V-6 engine without pulling the lifters, push rods and rockers first? I could be wrong but I thought all those things would have to come out in order to R&R the cam. At least, that's the way I always did my V-8s.
 

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