No spark - Will not turn over

[crazy_eights]

Good afternoon everyone, i have been trying to get my newly rebuilt engine started and i'm having problems sorting out the electrical system. The model is a 1980 XS650 SG.

I set up everything and connected all the wired except for headlight, signals and left handlebar control. New coils as the old ones were fried. The fuses were checked, battery is at 12.5V in great condition. I turn the key, switch off the kill switch and press the start and nothing. Not even a click. If i bridge the connection at the starter relay bolts the engine turns over, but still no spark. I tried 2 other starter relays and same issue. I doubt that all of them were fried. i tried another TCI ignition unit off my other xs650, still nothing, switched the Reg/Rect., no change. I switched the stator..nothing. Change the whole wire harness from the other bike... nothing.

One thing i noticed is that the "start" button on the right handlebar controller is always connected to negative, weather the button is pressed or not. Is this suppose to happen?

 

[retiredgentleman]

You have a TCI ignition, but you say you are using coils, as in more than one. TCI normally uses one coil, so just wondering what you have there.

If you still have the original 4 position stock fuse panel (glass fuses), you need to get rid of it asap. They are worn out and very unreliable, and cause lots of electrical problems. Automotive blade type fuse holders is the way to go.

Make a few checks with a VOM. With key on and kill switch to Run, check to see if you have + 12 volts at the red/white wire terminal on the starter relay. If you have +12 volts there, then all it takes is a ground from the Start push button on the blue/white wire terminal.

Yon may be missing the ground connection for the Start pb. The ground comes in from the head light bucket to the left handlebar switch (horn). That ground supplies the ground to ground the handlebars. The handlebar then supplies the ground to the Start pb. Since you don't have the left side wired up, you may be missing the ground needed by the handlebars.

Try grounding (battery negative) the handlebars as a test.

Not sure what you mean about the Start pb. The button should have ground on one side and no ground on the other side when the button is not pushed. When pushed, both sides should be grounded.

 

[crazy_eights]

What i meant to say by "coils" is that i tried the originals and they were fried, i bought a new set and didn;t work and i tried another OEM set from another XS650 that didn't work. So.. just the number of coins that i used. It only has one.

I checked for voltage at the starter relay red/white wire terminal and it does have power. I'll ground the right side controls to the frame and try starting it again.

The handlebar ground description was for the blue/white wire ending at the handlebar start switch, if i test for continuity to the frame (negative -) it sounds like it's connected. That's why i thought it's shorting out somewhere in case it wasn't suppose to be connected unless the button is pressed. That would mean that the moment I would switch the kill switch from "off" to "on" it would automatically try and start the motorcycle...no?

 

[retiredgentleman]

What i meant to say by "coils" is that i tried the originals and they were fried, i bought a new set and didn;t work and i tried another OEM set from another XS650 that didn't work. So.. just the number of coins that i used. It only has one.

I checked for voltage at the starter relay red/white wire terminal and it does have power. I'll ground the right side controls to the frame and try starting it again.

The handlebar ground description was for the blue/white wire ending at the handlebar start switch, if i test for continuity to the frame (negative -) it sounds like it's connected. That's why i thought it's shorting out somewhere in case it wasn't suppose to be connected unless the button is pressed. That would mean that the moment I would switch the kill switch from "off" to "on" it would automatically try and start the motorcycle...no?

The blue/white wire terminals normally must not be grounded. If you find it to be grounded, then you have a problem. Disconnect the blue/white wire at both ends and use your ohmmeter to find out where the unwanted ground is coming from.

 

[crazy_eights]

I changed the fuses to blade fuses and took of all the wiring for the push button, electric start and it worked. I removed the starter relay and just left the main wire from battery to the 20A fuse, grounded the right hand control with kill switch and i kick started it. Worked on the first try. Thank you for all the help.

 

[XSLeo]

In your first post you say "turned the key" I assume to the on position, "the kill switch off" you usually turn the Engine stop switch to run.
On some years the engine stop switch, stopped the starter from working except in the "run" position. Some years the starter would work with the engine stop switch in any position.
Leo

 

[crazy_eights]

After the first initial start, the bike ran for 2-3 min then shut off. I checked the fuses and the Kill Switch fuse was burnt out. I changed it and tried again. The moment I flip the kill switch to the "run" position the fuse burns out. What i'm going to attempt now is buy a bunch of fuses and unplug everything going to the ignition side. R/R, Sator, TCI unit, coils and try attaching then one by one till the fuse blows. It should locate the problem. If not, then i have to search the whole harness for a live wire contact to ground.

I did check for continuity and it looks like the wire coming from the fuse to the kill switch is "beeping" when tested to the frame. It could be a wire... or does anyone think it's a hardware piece that is at fault. We shall find out soon enough. Anyone taking bets?

 

[XSLeo]

Do you mean the ignition fuse? There isn't a "kill switch" fuse. The engine stop switch on the 80 SG sends power out on a red/white wire to the TCI box, the Coil and to the safety relay, from the safety relay to the starter relay.
No sense in checking anything else.
Unplugging an item is a good way to test. After the engine stop switch there are only three things to unplug. The TCI box, connector on the left side of bike. The safety relay, on the right side of bike, and the coil under the tank.
You say you hooked up most of the wiring, did you install the right side switch housing on the bars? If so you might have pinched the wires between the housing and bars. It might have started but the vibes finished the pinching to get a short to ground.
Remove the switch housing and check the wires.
Leo

 

[crazy_eights]

It was the coils, i was testing for continuity between the fuse wire going to the bike (without a fuse in the slot) and ground. It was beeping and i started removing the TCI box, nothing, but when i took off the red/white coil wire it broke the connection. I bought a new set of coils and it started up with no issues. (minor issues) the clutch push rod seal was leaking and the engine was overheating, the pipes were way too hot. I assume it's running lean. But that's a story for another thread. Thank you gentleman for all your help.