Other side effects

[xjwmx]

You've seen these commercials for psychoactive drugs on TV. The last half of the commercial is the reading of the "side effects", more correctly known as the "the effects".

One side effect they always leave out is "May destroy your soul and make you worthless." We grow through adversity. If you take a legal drug to take the edge off, to absolve your conscience really, that's what's happening, then you threw in the towel.

 

[TeeCat]

You've seen these commercials for psychoactive drugs on TV. The last half of the commercial is the reading of the "side effects", more correctly known as the "the effects".

One side effect they always leave out is "May destroy your soul and make you worthless." We grow through adversity. If you take a legal drug to take the edge off, to absolve your conscience really, that's what's happening, then you threw in the towel.

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you referring to drugs (such as Abilify, for instance) that are used to treat depression and other affective (mood) disorders? Maybe I'm not reading you correctly. But if I am, many such illnesses have an organic (biological) basis and constitute something a little more complex than situational adversity, requiring an approach that addresses brain chemistry in addition to cognitive and behavioral factors. Seeking treatment for affective disorders does not constitute surrender by any means, nor does it suggest a burdened conscience. In fact, quite the opposite is true.

If I'm misunderstanding you, apologies!

TC

 

[xjwmx]

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you referring to drugs (such as Abilify, for instance) that are used to treat depression and other affective (mood) disorders? Maybe I'm not reading you correctly. But if I am, many such illnesses have an organic (biological) basis

Yes, those are the ones. The people who take them talk about a biological basis, also But in fact everything has a biological basis, being as we're biological machines. But I also believe that the so-called pathologies that are treated with those drugs have a basis in actions and reactions that are guilt-producing. The drug is in lieu of correcting the action. That's why I called it soul-destroying. I think I remember a post where you said you're a psychologist.

 

[Yamakazi]

I'll substitute my Lexapro for the pain any day. I also know where my soul is going.

 

[xjwmx]

People might object more to giving them to children, since it's easier to see how it might affect their development. But in the sense that we have that potential for development too, we're the same as children.

 

[TeeCat]

I think I remember a post where you said you're a psychologist.

I have a Master of Science degree in Counseling Psychology, and spend a great deal of time working with teens and young adults who struggle with mood and personality disorders.

But I also believe that the so-called pathologies that are treated with those drugs have a basis in actions and reactions that are guilt-producing. The drug is in lieu of correcting the action. That's why I called it soul-destroying.

This is a sweeping and, respectfully, incorrect generalization. While guilt can most certainly be a function of/factor in mood disorders - such as in abuse survivorship in which the abused often believe (incorrectly) that what happened to them was their fault - guilt is not, by default, automatically linked to either mood disorders or their treatment. Also, medications used in the treatment of mood disorders are almost always an adjunct (additional component) to some sort of thought/behavior therapy, and are not generally intended to eradicate symptoms by themselves.

If you are interested enough in this topic to post about it, I'd highly recommend AllPsych as an unbiased, comprehensive source of information on (among other types) mood and personality disorders and various treatment modalities. While I appreciate your recognition that environmental factors can be an important component of mental illness, I emphatically refute your contention that guilt is foregone consequence of treatment that involves pharmaceutical intervention. This simply is not the case.

I commend your interest in the topic of mood/personality disorders and encourage you to educate yourself on it. This realm is one in which the maxim "Knowledge is power" can be perfectly and successfully applied.

TC

 

[xjwmx]

The key to happiness is thoughts and actions that do not produce guilt. That's all that's required.

Edit: By "guilt" I mean the state of being guilty rather than the internal sensation of guilt.

 

[501Spanky]

Your statements may apply to you, but not to everyone. As someone who lived with depression and anxiety for many years untreated I can tell you first hand that I am a much better person on my "soul destroying" drug. Standing up and recognizing that I needed help makes me a much stronger person than continuing on in misery would.
The real key to happiness is self knowledge and living your life by making choices that you are comfortable with regardless of outside influence.

 

[Ton Up]

Stopped watching TV years ago, when the media stopped reporting the news,
and started making it up.

 

[TeeCat]

xj, Spanky sounds as if he is benefiting from some good decisions regarding thoughtful treatment of his depression.

I'm afraid, based on your most recent assertion, that your contentions are based largely on misinformation and seemingly intractable personal bias. Again, I invite you to educate yourself on this topic before making public pronouncements about it.

I came here willing to offer an informed response to your initial post, but you don't seem receptive to known quantities on this subject, so I'll respectfully withdraw from this thread, except to suggest to you that casting moral aspersions upon people who suffer from mood disorders is both archaic and unhelpful.

TC

 

[501Spanky]

xj, Spanky sounds as if he is benefiting from some good decisions regarding thoughtful treatment of his depression.

I'm afraid, based on your most recent assertion, that your contentions are based largely on misinformation and seemingly intractable personal bias. Again, I invite you to educate yourself on this topic before making public pronouncements about it.

I came here willing to offer an informed response to your initial post, but you don't seem receptive to known quantities on this subject, so I'll respectfully withdraw from this thread, except to suggest to you that casting moral aspersions upon people who suffer from mood disorders is both archaic and unhelpful.

TC

Thank you, and agreed!

Spanky

 

[xjwmx]

TeeCat, that's twice you've invited me to educate myself. You must be trying to pull rank, an egotistical and guilty act itself. Are you a happy person?

In fact the question is a philosophical one, an area where I'm highly educated myself. What you do as a psychologist is only the leg work, after you have solved the philosophical question, to the best of your uneducated ability.

As you read through some of these responses you may realize that the drug really only makes them feel better about their condition or makes them able to tolerate it. They have not overcome that adversity and benefited from the knowledge gained by doing so. No, it's not always easy, but it is always worthwhile.

 

[nj1639]

Self discipline can go a long way if one is up to the challenge....though it does take a bit of work.
Organic, psycological? What is the origin?
IF I beat myself with a hammer I can take meds to ease the pain or I can find out why I keep beating myself with a hammer and stop.

 

[501Spanky]

Ahhhh - now I see. Next you're going to ask me if I have found Jesus. No I have not, and I'm not looking either.

You did not ask a question. You made 2 statements: "If you take a legal drug to take the edge off" and "to absolve your conscience really". These 2 statements do not tie into each other. You are using an irrelevant statement to back up your first statement.

"The love of simplicity.. . has been the source of much false reasoning in philosophy" (Hume).

 

[501Spanky]

Self discipline cannot correct a chemical imbalance in the brain. Self discipline and self knowledge do go a long way in choosing the way in which you lead your life. I am a happy, well adjusted person with a good career and wonderful family. I also have a chemical imbalance that makes me not so happy and fun to be around. I choose to take medication so I can be myself (please don't reply that I am myself when not medicated - it's just a circular argument).
If you have not dealt with depression you cannot understand what it is like.

 

[xjwmx]

"If you take a legal drug to take the edge off" and "to absolve your conscience really". These 2 statements do not tie into each other.

The "edge" is repercussions and the knowledge of having done wrong, hopefully accompanied by a guilty conscience.

 

[xjwmx]

Self discipline cannot correct a chemical imbalance in the brain.

No one was born with their body not producing enough Abilify.

 

[309misbehaviors]

Not all ppl are unhappy because they have done something wrong. this world is crazy and f$#ked up, plenty of reasons why ppl are unhappy. Chemical imbalance def being one.

xjwmx why are you so interested in this topic? Do you have some sort of experience with depression and mood altering drugs or do you just enjoy passing judgement on how ppl deal with their problems?

 

[501Spanky]

No one was born with their body not producing enough Abilify.

Your body does not produce Abilfy (Aripiprazole), Bristol-Myers Squibb does. Serotonin and tryptophan on the other hand are naturally occurring and control moods.

You are taking a scientific phenomenon and applying philosophical doctrine to it. Not a good foundation for a logical argument.

Leave out all the stuff about legal drugs and you would have a better platform.

For instance: "All bad feelings come from doing bad things" would be more rational. Stating that someone is killing their soul and worthless because they are having difficulty controlling their mood / thoughts is a real stretch.

I have close experience with schizophrenic individuals that have gone off their medication. It does not make them better people, it makes them dangerous to themselves and sometimes others.

Go pray for a while and calm yourself.

 

[redi2ride]

much truth on both sides, also some false statements on both sides. One should not ignore the others truths to prove thier own stance. one should combine both truths and throw out the the false , then work together for a solution. only then will a conversation like this be worth our precious time. until this happens you all wasted mine.