Safety relay question

gggGary

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Have to look at the stator I butchered up but each leg also is probably what? 3 discrete coils spaced around the center?
 

Jim

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Have to look at the stator I butchered up but each leg also is probably what? 3 discrete coils spaced around the center?
I'd have to go look also, but I think 4 coils per leg... one coil for each N or S finger.
 

Jim

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Yeah... 4 coils per phase...


Untitled.png
 

lil2lo

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Thank you all for your replies. I thought about not running a safety relay at all. But I want to install a hidden starter button like the one on the photo below. My main concern is when this switch is defective there could be a permanent working starter motor. This happened once on an old Moto Guzzi I was riding, but then again Guzzi switches are notorious bad quality.

I thought about using a car light relay, but as I understand now this would not work because of the AC. I see there's some debate about whether it's AC or DC from the yellow wire. But this can be easy tested right? With a AC voltage meter and the engine running? Anyone done this?

I studied the wiring diagrams in my manual and it seems that the wiring of the safety relay changed over the years. On models 306, 366 and 476 the safety relay switches the positive wire to the starter button and from there it goes to the starter relay. On model 447 the safety relay switches the negative side with a wire coming from the starter button (which is now a ground switch) to the negative side of the starter relay. On models 533, 536 and 584 the safety relay changed back to switching the positive wire, but without a starter button in the circuit. The starter button remains a ground switch directly to the starter relay.

I don't think it makes much of a difference, but maybe with the starter button I plan to install it's best to mimick the 306/366/476 wiring. Any recommondations on that one?

175176687.jpg
 

Jim

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In the interest of trying not to be a dick... I've edited my comment above, but I'd like to point something out...

Here's a forum member asking for answers because.... well, that's what we do here, help other members with our collective experience and wisdom. What he got instead was another forum member saying/implying/questioning whether an alternator will output DC... and just generally throwing monkey wrenches into the discussion. It ain't helpful folks.

If you want to discuss whether a battery can charge "and" discharge at the same time... or question whether an alternator that generates an AC voltage can magically send out DC also, kindly do it somewhere else... it ain't helpful to a member seeking answers for his bike.

If you know something for a fact , say it. If you're not sure, say it.... say this is what you "think," but you're not sure and hopefully someone else who knows the answer will come along and confirm your answer. If you don't know the answer, kindly stay out of the conversation. If you're just bored and want to muddy up the waters for shits and grins... jus' to entertain yourself, Kindly stay out of the conversation.

...and yeah... I need some of this medicine too.

*climbs off the soapbox* :whistle:
 
Last edited:

jpdevol

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My main concern is when this switch is defective there could be a permanent working starter motor.
So long as the power to the starter solenoid circuit is supplied via the ignition circuit on R/W wire (as all models are) the kill switch and key switch will act as "fail-safe" should the starter button "stick"/fail. The safety relay doesn't add extra protection in that regard. The only way you're gonna result in the starter motor running continuously is for the solenoid to stick closed mechanically and the safety relay won't affect that either.
 

gggGary

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72-xs2-circuit-diagram.jpg
75-6 XS650 wiring diagram color.PNG

On models 306, 366 and 476 the safety relay switches the positive wire to the starter button and from there it goes to the starter relay
Hmm Think all the Yamaha's I've seen use the starter button to supply ground to the solenoid. A button that's not on the bars creates some issues on an old school carb bike where you want to be manipulating the throttle during the start sequence.
 

GLJ

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View attachment 233019

Hmm Think all the Yamaha's I've seen use the starter button to supply ground to the solenoid. A button that's not on the bars creates some issues on an old school carb bike where you want to be manipulating the throttle during the start sequence.

Bike in neutral, left hand for starter button, right for throttle.
Not the greatest if you stall it a stop light/sign but doable.
 

xjwmx

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I was going to show mathematically why the yellow wire stays at 1/2 the peak to peak voltage, but I see we've moved on...
 

Jim

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4G why do you say AC relay? The yellow wire should be more or less steady
Nope. It alternates...

If the voltages are three symmetrical sine waves evenly spaced, the center voltage should be constant
Nope. Again, It alternates.

I was going to show mathematically why the yellow wire stays at 1/2 the peak to peak voltage...

You were saying? :er:
 

xjwmx

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Frankly you wouldn't understand it and you would also automatically say it was wrong. I can take one or the other but not both at the same time right now.
 

jpdevol

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View attachment 233019View attachment 233020

Hmm Think all the Yamaha's I've seen use the starter button to supply ground to the solenoid. A button that's not on the bars creates some issues on an old school carb bike where you want to be manipulating the throttle during the start sequence.
Of course you're right about the button, however you skipped a yr's diagram: the one that shows the safety relay switching ground: 1974. IDK, memory fails, maybe this diagram is wrong??.......
74_TX650A copy.jpg fix 2.jpg
 
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