She runs! but....

[jbgore]

Hooked up jumper cables to the new bike, and even with carbs pouring gas EVERYWHERE, she runs!...not well, but hopefully a great carb cleaning will take care of that.
There does seem to be some issues from siiting for years unused. First, the clutch seems to be locked up tight. Things roll free in neutral, but not in gear with clutch pulled in. I've read as much as I could find and have tried adjusting the clutch as per the Clyner manual (and instructions here), tying clutch lever pulled and working rear wheel with bike on center stand, trying to roll back back in forth in gear with clutch pulled, and even starting in gear with clutch tied pulled and stupidly trying to keep rear wheel from turning (accident waiting to happen). Anything else to try, or is it time to drain oil and pull clutch apart?
The front brake also seems to be frozen up. It's dragging now, but pulling the lever doesn't do anything. I assume the piston is stuck. Any tricks other that pulling apart caliper and MC for cleaning/rebuild? I read about using compressed air or even grease to move piston when doing rebuild.
Thanks for the help - I've got some catching up to do with my son!

 

[pamcopete]

jbgore,

With the bike on the center stand, pull the clutch in and tie it to the handlebar grip. Wait overnight, then with the clutch still pulled in, and in neutral, just kick the kick starter about 1,000 times and it will break loose. This is also a good time to change the oil screen in the sump.

 

[xjwmx]

If your leg gets tired, run it up to about 15 mph, pull in the clutch, and lock up the rear tire.

 

[jbgore]

Thanks Pete. I might have to use the boy's leg for kicks 11-1000. I think I kicked it a few times in neutral with the clutch pulled and there was very little resistance. Does that sound normal? It only felt that way in neutral. Kicking with the clutch in while in first gear moves the rear wheel, or the whole bike if not on the center stand.
Thanks again.
By the way, I'm thinking about adding one of your ignition systems and running without a battery. That will be one of the MANY ways that my bike is cooler than my son's!

 

[xjwmx]

I kicked it a few times in neutral with the clutch pulled and there was very little resistance.

If pulling the clutch has any effect at all, I think the clutch is just misadjusted.

 

[pamcopete]

jbgore,

Well, perhaps there is nothing wrong here. Just a misconception of how the kick starter works. The kick starter is on the transmission side of the clutch, so you have to be in neutral because the kick starter only works if the clutch is engaged.

 

[jbgore]

Pete,

I hate to sound ignorant, but If the clutch disengages enough that the kickstarter gives virtually no resistance when the clutch is pulled, does it make sense that if started in first gear using the starter with bike on center stand and clutch tied to bar (just as it is when kickstarting with no resistance), that the transmission is engaged and the rear wheel turns?
Prior to all this, I pulled the clutch adjustment cover, loosened the nut (it had to turn through the engagement process before it stopped hard and the nut broke free), turned the adjustment screw till reasonable resistance was felt, backed off about 1/4 turn, and retightened nut without moving screw.
I aplogize if I keep asking stupid questions. Thanks for the patience.

 

[xjwmx]

What happens if you start it in neutral then squeeze the clutch and brake and put it in first?

 

[pamcopete]

jbgore,

Well, again. Perhaps a misconception of the clutch operation. From your description, yes...the rear wheel will turn with the transmission in neutral, on the stand with the clutch pulled in (disengaged) That is the nature of a wet clutch and the fact that the transmission is of the fully meshed variety. The gears are always meshed. Neutral just means that the dogs are not engaged, but the gears are. There is enough friction from the oil on the gear shafts to rotate the shafts, the gears and the wheel.

 

[jbgore]

If I start on center stand, in neutral, pull clutch, apply rear brake, and put it first, it stalls immediately.
I also noticed that it is only running on one cylinder - the side with the carb pouring gas. The other carb doesn't seem to be moving any fuel. The air filters look brand new - another indicator that it really is a low mileage bike.

 

[littlebill31]

Ok, I'm lost. I have a question. My bike runs fine, clutch is adjusted per manual, I ride it all the time with no problems, but if bike is not running, in gear, and clutch pulled in, it will not roll. It has to be in neutral to move even when clutch is pulled in. Or am I reading the replies wrong.

 

[jbgore]

OK Pete, another stupid question (I'm used to dirt bike world). Should I be able to have it in gear, pull clutch, and kick it over without the bike lurching forward? (I can't). Should I be able to pull clutch with it in gear and roll the bike, or turn the rear wheel freely if it's on the center stand? (I can't do that either).

 

[pamcopete]

jbgore,

Again, there is always some friction in the clutch and the transmission. If you are only running on one cylinder, then it would not surprise me if there is sufficient friction to stall the engine when you put it in gear because the dead cylinder is also helping to stop the engine.. This based on your earlier statement that there is minimal drag with the clutch disengaged, but it might be enough to stall one cylinder.

I would suggest that you continue to fix the other cylinder and just leave the bike on the center stand for now with the clutch tied back and use the electric starter. One problem at a time.

 

[pamcopete]

OK Pete, another stupid question (I'm used to dirt bike world).

1. Should I be able to have it in gear, pull clutch, and kick it over without the bike lurching forward? (I can't).

2. Should I be able to pull clutch with it in gear and roll the bike, or turn the rear wheel freely if it's on the center stand? (I can't do that either).

1. NO. You must be in neutral to use the kick starter because the kick starter is on the same side of the clutch as the transmission. It will not turn the engine over with the clutch pulled in (disengaged)

Operating the kick starter as you describe will transfer the kick starter to the transmission and to the rear wheel, but not to the engine!!

The kick starter is on the transmission side of the clutch.

Part 2: Yes, you should be able to do that if the clutch plates are not stuck together and the clutch is properly adjusted, but there is still a lot of friction involved, so the wheel will not turn as freely as you might think, so any movement should be considered normal until you get the engine running and you can warm up the engine and the oil for a better analysis. Hence my suggestion that you fix the engine first.

 

[jbgore]

Thanks Pete. You have finally convinced me that there is a high probability that my clutch is fine. Sorry for being so hardheaded.
I agree with the one problem at a time approach. I hope to pull the carbs tomorrow, stick my son's good carbs in place, and see what happens. I've got my fingers crossed.
Thanks again for the education.

 

[cpt137]

I have brought back many "barn" finds with stuck clutch plate. Get it out on a road where you can ride it and not have to stop.Get it bump started and with the clutch pulled in open it up and let it accelerate then back off. You may have to do this a while to let the oil warm up. Never had one not break free.

 

[jamesgs4]

I have brought back many "barn" finds with stuck clutch plate. Get it out on a road where you can ride it and not have to stop.Get it bump started and with the clutch pulled in open it up and let it accelerate then back off. You may have to do this a while to let the oil warm up. Never had one not break free.

I did the same thing to free the sticky plates when I swapped engines on a road trip last summer, worked like a charm.

 

[jbgore]

I know it will surprise all of the regulars here, but Pete was right on the money.
I pulled my carbs this morning, put on my son's carbs, and she runs like a bike with 785 miles should! (both cylinders and everything)
Clutch works great - no creeping with clutch pulled in and bike in gear.
Now I need to start disassembly to catch up with my son. I think I'll wait for a cold day to clean the carbs since I can do that in the basement.
Thanks for all the help, especially you, Pete.
Merry Christmas!

 

[pamcopete]

jbgore,

Well, Merry Christmas to you too. Just remember that the XS650 is a very simple bike and easy to work on, so as you encounter other problems, take the simple approach and don't over think the problem.

Ride. Enjoy. Life is simple