Speaking of welding...

[Downeaster]

Disclaimer - What little I know about welding is self-taught through trial and error. Lots and lots of error...

Still, I flatter myself that I'm at least a short step above a junkyard welder.

Right now, I'm having my ass soundly kicked by a project. I need to weld some 1/4 inch 316 Stainless rod and I can NOT get TIG to work. I'm using "red" tungsten, pure argon, DCEN and have tried both larger and small gas lenses and tungstens. All I'm managing to do is create a bunch of black, crumbly birdshit.

I initially thought the fact that I was clamping the rod to a steel table was introducing contaminants, so I tucked a sheet of scrap stainless between the rod and the table - no change. I've been all over the dial on amperage and pre and post flow and nothing is working. Is this some sort of issue with the 316 alloy, or have my TIG skills (sketchy on my best day) deteriorated to complete crap?

I have some 1/16ths 308 stick that works okay and is getting it done but it's beyond ugly. Should've got some 1/8th I think that would have helped.

Of course about the time I came up with a way to hold things in place and got the stick welding method to work at least somewhat, the friggin' batteries in my Miller helmet died and I only have one spare...

 

[Jim]

Some good Youtube vids on stainless tigging DE. The only thing I can tell ya is 316 needs a ER316 rod. That what you're using?

 

[WideAWAKE]

Do you have a city college near you?

I took a welding class at night a few years ago. Cost me 30 bucks.

They had top quality equipment and very skilled instructors.

People from all walks of life.

It really helped me. I’ll probably go back in a year or two when I have some free time and take one specially on tig.

I took an intro class but it gave us a few weeks on oxy, stick, mig, flux and tig.

 

[Downeaster]

The rod I have is 308 which may explain the problem. I'll see if I can get my hands on some 316.

 

[GLJ]

Using your TIG can you form a good "puddle"? Does the black crumbly stuff form when you add filler rod?

 

[Downeaster]

@GLJ - Yes...

I'm welding two pieces of 1/4 inch rod at right angles ┴ so the joint is really tiny and while I can establish what looks like a puddle on either piece, I can't get them to flow together and as soon as step off the pedal the black crud forms. With or without introducing filler.

 

[40north]

sounds like gas envelope is cutting off too soon or there's too much air movement. The black sugar is oxides...I've ruined a few ss projects, and also built a lot of stainless in US canneries, union work, and I was sometimes the first choice...which was silly, but it happened. As to self-taught. Me too. Longtimeago an old millwright told me that "nobody can teach you to weld" by which he meant teach yourself. I too took a class. I learned a lot. Best!

 

[GLJ]

It sounds like a gas problem. Can you increase the amount of after flow time? Also make sure you are not welding in a breeze.

 

[40north]

I always wanted to make a gloved box from an aquarium and fill it with CO2/argon, then do tig with no cup - It'd have to conserve the gas mix, ie be tight with slight overpressure flow. Maybe someday, maybe not. But for little things it'd be larrupin'. Maybe CO2 alone but with the argon-cup thingie too. Phuckaround/findout. Simply musing on the idea.

I never had trouble 308 / 316 so far as appearances, nor mild steel to 316. But none of that was structural or motor related as in where it actually matters.

Best!

 

[bosco659]

I know this thread was to discuss TIG welding, but I thought some experts watching this may be able to help with a few stick welding questions. I had lunch with a friend today who gave me about 10lbs of welding rod UTP 65. I Googled the rod number and it appears to be a decent rod. I think the biggest issue I have with them is they have been stored for decades in a cardboard box in a less than dry environment. I wonder if these rods are salvageable. I read they can be baked to dry them out but being so old, is this an option for me? If that can be baked, can this be done in the kitchen oven or will my wife shoot me for trying? It would be nice to save them if it’s worth it otherwise I’ll just pitch them.

Any experience with these? Thx

 

[gggGary]

Sounds like a great girl's night out project, ;^)
Shouldn't stink and seems like rod coating is pretty tough. Haven't stick welded for..... well nevvver mind that.
Back in the day a 25 pound cardboard box of rod could sit out in the shed forever and still weld just fine..

 

[bosco659]

Sounds like a great girl's night out project, ;^)
Shouldn't stink and seems like rod coating is pretty tough. Haven't stick welded for..... well nevvver mind that.
Back in the day a 25 pound cardboard box of rod could sit out in the shed forever and still weld just fine..

Ok I may try it in the oven but tell wifey in advance that you said it would be ok. lol.

My welder is buried in the garage right now but when I have a chance to pull it out I’ll try burning a couple without the drying treatment.

 

[arcticXS]

As for old rods/ sticks, I would recommend drying them out immediately before using. Otherwise they will just absorb water from the air again. On all the ships I have worked on over the last 22 years, we have had a heated thermostat controlled cabinet for welding rod storage. When a new pack is taken from the main storage, and opened, it is put in this heated cabinet. Except for buying new vacuum packed rods every time, this is the only way to do it properly.

 

[bosco659]

As for old rods/ sticks, I would recommend drying them out immediately before using. Otherwise they will just absorb water from the air again. On all the ships I have worked on over the last 22 years, we have had a heated thermostat controlled cabinet for welding rod storage. When a new pack is taken from the main storage, and opened, it is put in this heated cabinet. Except for buying new vacuum packed rods every time, this is the only way to do it properly.

Do you what temperature they were kept at?

 

[arcticXS]

Do you what temperature they were kept at?

I'd say we keep them at 60-70 C, as the humidity in non-aircondition areas on a ship is often very high.
According to the specs from Unitor, the thermostat range is 86-185F. See attached screenshot.
When I worked in a shipyard 35 years ago, the welders had portable electrode "buckets" with a heating element. About the size of a 5 gallon/ 20 liter engine oil bucket/pail. Something like that could be useful for hobby welders.

 

[arcticXS]

Something like this would definitely do the job for most hobby welders:
https://www.amazon.com/SÜA-Portable-Electrode-Drying-Volts/dp/B07CBJJDBF

 

[Wingedwheel]

The lower drawer of my welding supply cabinet has a plumbing heat strip inside the drawer that I keep plugged in. Seems to do a good job keeping things dry. I use the mig for anything not structural but when I need a stick the rods work fine.

 

[bosco659]

The lower drawer of my welding supply cabinet has a plumbing heat strip inside the drawer that I keep plugged in. Seems to do a good job keeping things dry. I use the mig fot anything not structural but when I need a stick the rods work fine.View attachment 332044View attachment 332046View attachment 332045

Very nice. I don’t use my welder very much at all and when I do, it’s mostly for MIG. I try to keep my welding rods as dry as possible but no doubt they’re sucking moisture out of the air. When I do buy new rods, I try to keep moisture out by storing them in ABS pipes with air tight caps. One end has a glued on cap and the other has a threaded oring cap. I’ll posts pics next time I’m out in the garage. These tubes are also great for storing sawzall blades.

 

[PupTruck]

@GLJ - Yes...

I'm welding two pieces of 1/4 inch rod at right angles ┴ so the joint is really tiny and while I can establish what looks like a puddle on either piece, I can't get them to flow together and as soon as step off the pedal the black crud forms. With or without introducing filler.

Definitely a post purge gas issue. The molten weld puddle for stainless (and all metals with TIG for the most part) needs to have a post purge for a few seconds after the arc is complete and puddle completely solidifies. With stainless, I usually give the bead a few extra seconds of coverage to be sure, by either extending the solenoid shut off time in the machine or keeping the gas flow manually on longer after the bead is finished. Also check the flow rate. You may have the flow too low or too high. Sometimes the symptoms are the same with either.

 

[Kevin Werner]

I today had dogshit results. I was extending a brake drum actuator lever. I clamped the two, chopped arm and wrench handle section to the grounded table. No Harley Español on that. The puddle would not jump. Current flowed though pieces to the table. I aligned the pieces clamped to a 2x4 cut off and magic happened (as much magic as a Flux cored wire can offer).