XS650 and the Sidecar of Death

[JohnGoFast]

I tried the dual brake levers, and found it more complicated than my riding style. Always had to balance my foot between the two pedals perfectly, or I would NOT stop straight.

Basically, when I want to stop or slow down, I always want it to be in a straight-ish line. If I want to stop and turn, I turn the wheel. I'm riding with a wife on the back and a canine in the hack - not playing sidecar motocrosser...

Summit Racing sells a cool little adjustable brake proportioning valve that you install just downstream of your rear master. A bit smaller than a pack of cigarettes, (1) input, with (2) outputs. A dial on top lets you adjust to any ratio you want for rear bike / hack brake. Unfortunately, after I removed my dual brake setup, I bought the valve (about $50), and a year later when I got back to it, it appears I have lost it... Hopefully get some time soon to get back on that project...

Good idea there. I've used a brake proportioning valve on go karts in the past.

 

[5twins]

I'm not sure if you're familiar with tractor brake set-ups but this is how some guys set these up. You have two separate brake pedals but the outer one (sidecar) has a bar attached to it running over underneath the bike brake pedal. Step on the bike brake and you apply both with just that one pedal. Shift your foot out and step on the sidecar pedal and it works only the sidecar brake. This eliminates the need to modulate both pedals evenly although I'm sure it takes a bit of fine adjusting to get it right.

 

[Scrambled]

That sounds like a scary set up for a side car , my old international case would spin on a dime when you locked up one side , so I wonder if you locked up the side car would it pull violently to the right ?

 

[JohnGoFast]

I'm not sure if you're familiar with tractor brake set-ups but this is how some guys set these up. You have two separate brake pedals but the outer one (sidecar) has a bar attached to it running over underneath the bike brake pedal. Step on the bike brake and you apply both with just that one pedal. Shift your foot out and step on the sidecar pedal and it works only the sidecar brake. This eliminates the need to modulate both pedals evenly although I'm sure it takes a bit of fine adjusting to get it right.

I have seen that kind of setup, I really like the idea of being able to brake only the sidecar and front without engaging the bike rear.

 

[5twins]

It sure would, lol. That's why I think a drum on the car would be better than a disc, at least for the separate pedal scenario. You could adjust it so it wouldn't lock.

 

[Scrambled]

They sell those brand new Ural (Russian ) side car rigs down the road from me . They look pretty slick, and they are two wheel drive , go anywhere just about . I am tempted to buy one .

 

[5twins]

Well yes, they do have a 2 wheel drive version, but also just a normal one with rear bike wheel drive only. The 2 wheel drive version was originally built for the Russian military.

 

[RFLIVES]

I'm digging it but I may be a bit biased. With the twin discs I have no need for a sidecar brake. Trail reduction in some form is the best time /money spent on a side car rig. I had my triples modded by side effects in Canada.

 

[JohnGoFast]

Thanks for the advise! I found and read your build thread a few weeks ago. You did a fantastic job on your build, I really dig it.

I didn't see in the build thread, what front master cylinder did you use?

 

[RFLIVES]

Radial master cylinder off a Gsxr

 

[JohnGoFast]

Do you know what degree your triples are at now?

 

[fredintoon]

Do you know what degree your triples are at now?

Hi John,
most likely the frame's rake angle has remained "as is", the Steerite mod re-machines the 'trees to lean the fork tubes forward to reduce the steering trail.
BTW, both my XS11 rig and my XS650 rig have separately operated sidecar brakes.
The SCB pedals on both rigs are set up at the same height as the bike's rear brake pedal and far enough apart that a straight foot operates the rear brake, toe out a bit works both and toe out even further operates the SCB only.
SCB works great to haul you round an overcooked rightie but only if you stomp on it BEFORE the chair wheel lifts. Mostly it's for playing sillybuggers with.
Nice rig you have, not what I'd do for attachment but sidecar attachment is an art, not a science so your way is as good or perhaps better than mine, eh?

 

[RFLIVES]

Hi John,
most likely the frame's rake angle has remained "as is", the Steerite mod re-machines the 'trees to lean the fork tubes forward to reduce the steering trail.

The frame stayed stock. The triples on our bikes are cast iron. Sideffects actually cut and re-weld them along with some light machining to achieve the trail reduction. I think the number ended up being close to 2.9" from 4.5" stock. It may not seem like much but it is.

 

[fredintoon]

The frame stayed stock. The triples on our bikes are cast iron - - -

Hi RFLIVES,
cast iron? Betcha the XS650 triple trees are steel forgings.
BTW, with a little work XS750/850/1100 forks can be grafted into an XS650 frame.
Hybridizing the longer reach 'trees from a Standard XS750 etc. with the forward axle fork tubes & sliders from the same model Special will cost mebbe 1/5th of a 'tree modification to give you the same trail reduction plus fatter fork tubes.
It also needs the larger capacity Special's slightly different front fender and you gotta use the Special's Weird Harold swivelly front brake calipers.

 

[JohnGoFast]

Thanks for the info guys, I have had triple trees machined for other bikes and assumed the frame stayed stock. I was just wondering what the angle was at now for reference.

I have a XS1100 front end and didn't think about the rake difference, I'll have to look into that a bit more.

 

[JohnGoFast]

Ah, the front end I have is not very special. No leading axle.

 

[erohver]

Ah, the front end I have is not very special. No leading axle.

I just purchased your old XS this weekend. It's a blast!