81 XS650 running but have issues

[Team Junk]

200w @14v = ~14 amps charge rate - ignition etc.

Lithium battery fires are fun especially if you throw water on the fire.

 

[Kyleshep49]

So is there a way to use this battery? Only because i have it and like how sleek it hides… can changing the reg/rec help? Do the others that run this same setup just lucking out with no issues? If so, what do you recommend for a battery that’s a similar size. Or do you think I’m better off replacing the capacitor?

200w @14v = ~14 amps charge rate - ignition etc.

Lithium battery fires are fun especially if you throw water on the fire.

 

[Kyleshep49]

https://www.tcbroschoppers.com/products/12v-8ah-sealed-battery-for-xs650-pma-with-digital-ignition

What do you think of this instead?
Also is the reg/rec that comes with the xscharge kit from mikes going to work good with this one i listed?

 

[jpdevol]

I've bought several items from TC Bros and always been happy with the quality. I don't have experience with the battery listed. It would be worth a try @ $30, but I show them currently sold-out. It's $100 cheaper than a MOSFET regulator.

I found their comment about providing "clean" power for ignition (vs. capacitor) interesting. Perhaps that's the real issue.

Would be nice to get more info from Mike's about their regulator and its output settings.

 

[Kyleshep49]

I’m still trying to understand exactly what’s the issue too. If it was the rec/regulator wouldn’t that be an issue with the capacitor also? Like either way if you have a battery or capacitor the PMA with all the low draw leds still puts to much stress on it the rec/reg? Is the main issue just the charge rate on the battery? Hugh’s had a great read on this but I’m still just trying to fully understand

 

[Kyleshep49]

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/56361/BAT-UB1220TST.html

 

[Kyleshep49]

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/56345/BAT-UB1208WL.html

This one seem like the same one as TC Bros

 

[Jan_P]

It was a while since I read about this but if I recall right there Exists different types of regulators

https://www.shindengen.com/products/electro/motorcycle/reg/

And the setup is engineered with some kind of thought + expertise even.
Large manufacturers have experts and many man hours invested . .Have made field tests.
And sometimes there is no way around it .But as a rule of thumb they know their job.
Here on the forum are experts who surprisingly knows more about things than the factory.
But others gets better result having it closer to spec.

If one tries something else there is the risk it goes wrong Running another Oil and so on
If the aim is to get riding which I feel is appropriate --- bike runs fine as far as I can tell
And even if it did not life is full of Compromises ..The more so the rarer and older the machine is.

I don't know these systems but there was a mention of fire in these batteries and then the machine can be gone.

If it was me I would look into the capacitor solution ( if that is according to seller specification )
and have an extra battery there for safety. And eventually remove the battery if the capacitor setup works.

 

[jpdevol]

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/56345/BAT-UB1208WL.html

This one seem like the same one as TC Bros

It is very similar. I gather that this type of battery - Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) - is used in a wide variety of applications as back-up power for devices normally connected to AC. There is a wide variety of sizes and amp-hour ratings. If TCB is using them successfully with 200W PMA to provide clean power to digital ignitions, it is worth a shot at the price. It may or may not prove durable. The LifePo ( Lithium Iron Phosphate - AntiGravity, Shorai) batteries are reported to be more durable and less prone to "runaway" (fire) than other Li types. Still, the SLA seems worth a try at the price.

 

[Kyleshep49]

I know not anything to do with thread but..
So got bored and sanded and painted my scratched up old helmet. Might be a little to matchy matchy to my bike but whatever i thought it was cool. That’s what happens when i get bored

 

[jpdevol]

I’m still trying to understand exactly what’s the issue too. If it was the rec/regulator wouldn’t that be an issue with the capacitor also? Like either way if you have a battery or capacitor the PMA with all the low draw leds still puts to much stress on it the rec/reg? Is the main issue just the charge rate on the battery? Hugh’s had a great read on this but I’m still just trying to fully understand

Apparently, the capacitor you had installed was not providing the electrical current as your ignition wanted: voltage, frequency,interference, IDK. You fixed that when you replaced it with the battery. Bad capacitor, wrong capacitor, capacitor damage caused by regulator: IDK. Your ignition likes the current battery set-up and likely an SLA set-up too. TC Bros. inferred as much.

The issue now, for you, is a safe and durable system for whatever battery you use by finding a battery and regulator that will "live" together. Could be the existing regulator and another battery. Another regulator (MOSFET) and either type battery. Or, try another capacitor that will take care of the ignition.

 

[Kyleshep49]

Seen this on description for the capacitor they sent me with the kit. The kit they sell has a electronic ignition with e-advance so not sure why they include this capacitor if it’s not going to work…the description says this

{DESIGNED FOR USE WITH XS650 PMA CHARGING SYSTEM WITH EITHER OEM POINTS OR MECHANICAL ADVANCE XSCHARGE IGNITION SYSTEMS.

NOT FOR USE WITH BOYER BRANSDEN IGNTIONS.

NOT FOR USE WITH STOCK XS650 CHARGING SYSTEM COMPONENTS.

NOT FOR USE WITH ELECTRONIC ADVANCE PAMCO.}

 

[Kyleshep49]

Might just look into getting the correct capacitor for this. Need to figure out what one is best and weigh out that option vs my battery.

 

[jpdevol]

I'm old and require electric start: no experience with capacitor/battery eliminator. I do run a PMA (VAPE) with a AntiGravity 1201) because I wanted crank-timed ignition on 277 rephase.

I notice, though, that TC Bros sells XS Charge PMA's, but sells only the XS Charge Std. Ignition w/mechanical advance. Hugh's sells his own PMA and PMA w/CDI and he worked closely with PAMCO that is also mechanical advance. None of the guys I know who build/sell capacitor bikes run e-advance. The issue does not appear to be PMA, it appears (to me) to be electronic advance and capacitors.

Perhaps Mike's will trade you ignitions.

 

[Kyleshep49]

Yeah, I’m going to call them today and just see what they say. They’ve been closed all weekend so haven’t had a chance yet. I really don’t mind running a battery, it actually kinda makes me feel better knowing it’s there and the spark is so strong. I leaning towards either a regular 12v small battery like the one TC sells or getting a different reg/rec and running my lithium. I feel like based on experience with this lithium because i run it in my Honda and other comments about it that this antigravity lithium is a very solid battery that should work without issues for quite some time, just got to make sure the reg/rec is in line to charge correctly. I’m going to ask mikes about the reg/rec they sent me too for more specs

I'm old and require electric start: no experience with capacitor/battery eliminator. I do run a PMA (VAPE) with a AntiGravity 1201) because I wanted crank-timed ignition on 277 rephase.

I notice, though, that TC Bros sells XS Charge PMA's, but sells only the XS Charge Std. Ignition w/mechanical advance. Hugh's sells his own PMA and PMA w/CDI and he worked closely with PAMCO that is also mechanical advance. None of the guys I know who build/sell capacitor bikes run e-advance. The issue does not appear to be PMA, it appears (to me) to be electronic advance and capacitors.

Perhaps Mike's will trade you ignitions.

 

[Kyleshep49]

I talked to the guy at MikesXS, he wasn’t aware of any issues with capacitors running the ignitions or being bad etc, i told him about TC Bros description on the capacitor not being able to run the electronic ignitions he said he’d check it out but was news to him. I think trying to get a new reg/rec is kinda not the way i want to go right now. I’m going to batteries plus to pick up one of those small 12v .8ah AGM batteries and try that, they aren’t to expensive and i think that’s worth trying first. I really like the lithium battery but maybe I’ll save that for later when i update the reg/rec or something.

 

[Kyleshep49]

So picked this battery up today. Going to try it, just slightly bigger ah than the other one i was going to get. I also ordered a battery voltage gauge to run on the bike to monitor everything. Starting here and do some trail and error i guess

 

[jpdevol]

...... I really like the lithium battery but maybe I’ll save that for later when i update the reg/rec or something.

Yea, when you're 30yrs older and can't kick the bastard - lol. By then the whole technology will have changed again.

 

[Kyleshep49]

Also on a side note referring back to my clutch slipping, i had installed new friction plates and changed oils. It hooked up like crazy now no slipping. I will also note I’ve noticed with this bike compared to others I’ve had that it seems like the clutch cable needs a lot of “fine tuning” sometimes when you ride but i have a quick adjust on there so it’s easy

 

[Kyleshep49]

Ran it with the small 12v Duracell. Mounted under the seat no problem. After my ride checked my rec/reg wasn’t hot, either was the battery just slightly warm i would think normal. Battery before ride was 12.2 after ride was 13.4

Going to keep riding it this way, putting on that battery gauge when it gets here tomorrow so i can monitor and see how it goes. I need to just sync the carbs better and mess with fine tuning my mixture screws next