Ignition coil replacement

[gggGary]

IF you Avitar bike is the one we are talking about it could be anywhere but often jammed inside a fake oil tank with a bunch of other electrical parts, wire ties, black tape and foam rubber. The wires will be random colors, connections might be anything from heat shrink solder joints to home wiring nuts and go out through holes in the "tank" with poor or no grommets to protect them from sharp edges. A battery of marginal or smaller size will shoved in there or somewhere else. Back up and show us a couple of shots of the bike? because I'm just guessing again.
Here's the TCI with the cover off.

And with the cover on

 

[weekendrider]

And it is a CDI unit. Will that rec/reg work with the stock TCI?
You may be looking for something like on the wiki page instead of a TCI.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_discharge_ignition
The boyer brandsen is still fired off the cam?
With nothing on the cam surely he is looking for something fired from the crank?

rafbobber it is time to look under the left side case. There are 2 lengths of bolts so watch which comes out where.

 

[rafbobber702]

Yah that's my bike in my avatar. I'll check that out, and see if I find that unit. And post pics as well.

 

[gggGary]

I think the boyer bransden comes in several flavors both crank and cam fired but I have never messed with one.
WER the rec/reg/CDI pic is not his, just a random web shot.

 

[weekendrider]

The OP stated "Exact unit as pictured here". I can only go with what he says.

 

[rafbobber702]

I think the boyer bransden comes in several flavors both crank and cam fired but I have never messed with one.
WER the rec/reg/CDI pic is not his, just a random web shot.

It's the exact same unit as the one on my bike. It clearly says Sun rec/reg/cdi on it and is mounted horizontally under my seat.

 

[weekendrider]

And it is about the size of the TCI unit? My bad guess. Sorry.

 

[rafbobber702]

Alright guys, so I opened up this fake cylindrical container thing under my seat, and found the TCI unit inside it took it out and says Ignition Unit, just like the pic above. Apparently my bike has that TCI unit, and A CDI unit as well, and both are obviously wired up.

What's the next step?

 

[XSLeo]

I think the unit that is in the pic is just a reg/rec. It looks to be an aftermarket universal fit unit, so it has the CDI marking. I wouldn't worry about that. That's jusat for charging.
All the Boyers for the XS650 are driven off the cam and you will see it under the points/advancer covers.
On the left side engine cover there is a round cover that says Yamaha on it. Remove this cover, does it look like this under there?
The oval shaped black object is the pick ups for the TCI.
If it has them then follow the wires that come up behind the engine. There will be a bundle of three wires that come from the pickup and goes to the TCI box. The wires will be a green/white, a rd/white, a black/white.
Leo

 

[gggGary]

Hmmm
We can try to take you through electronics 101 but really from what I detect as your level of electrical knowledge and a helpful reread of your first post; someone SHOULD trouble shoot the real problem which could be (in random order) ANYTHING to do with the charging, ignition or maybe even fuel system.

I don't think this should be you. I mean it's an old design with old parts that have been modified by previous owners. It's tough job for a tech to find the real issue without really knowing how everything works what tests to perform, values to expect, and how it has been modified. No spark does not mean the problem is the coil. It could be, but it's expensive and VERY frustrating to try to buy your way to a working ignition system. Be honest, how neat,organized did things look inside the electrics box?

 

[rafbobber702]

And it is about the size of the TCI unit? My bad guess. Sorry.

I think the unit that is in the pic is just a reg/rec. It looks to be an aftermarket universal fit unit, so it has the CDI marking. I wouldn't worry about that. That's jusat for charging.
All the Boyers for the XS650 are driven off the cam and you will see it under the points/advancer covers.
On the left side engine cover there is a round cover that says Yamaha on it. Remove this cover, does it look like this under there?
The oval shaped black object is the pick ups for the TCI.
If it has them then follow the wires that come up behind the engine. There will be a bundle of three wires that come from the pickup and goes to the TCI box. The wires will be a green/white, a rd/white, a black/white.
Leo

Took off the cover off and took this pic, so it looks smiliar to the pic you posted.

Mine:

 

[rafbobber702]

Hmmm
We can try to take you through electronics 101 but really from what I detect as your level of electrical knowledge and a helpful reread of your first post; someone SHOULD trouble shoot the real problem which could be (in random order) ANYTHING to do with the charging, ignition or maybe even fuel system.

I don't think this should be you. I mean it's an old design with old parts that have been modified by previous owners. It's tough job for a tech to find the real issue without really knowing how everything works what tests to perform, values to expect, and how it has been modified. No spark does not mean the problem is the coil. It could be, but it's expensive and VERY frustrating to try to buy your way to a working ignition system. Be honest, how neat,organized did things look inside the electrics box?

Inside that electric box was just the TCI unit and the wires going to it. But I will admit that the wiring harness under the seat area isn't clean of job as it could be.

 

[rafbobber702]

I watched my mechanic as he ran diagnostics, used one of those multimeter devices. And triple checked his work, and determined the coil ignition was faulty.

Obviously I'm only following what my mechanic diagnosed.

 

[Purplezinger]

Sorry Im not sure what those terms are yet. Lol

Wait a damn minute, if you don't know what those terms mean, then how do you know if the coil is bad! Not to be harsh, but first things first!

 

[gggGary]

To answer the original question. You do need a dual plug wire coil with a primary resistance of 2.5 +- 10% ohms, secondary resistance of 13K +-10% ohms Your ignition is the 80 -84 TCI type. What part of your coil was out of electrical spec? How did your tech know the correct specs for the coil if he didn't know what system was firing the coil? Would that coil have had the correct specs for your ignition before it died?

Here is a link to the repair, trouble shooting of your ignition system;
http://www.biker.net/650_service/650service main.html

Use the 650G/SG Supplement (836k) on that page, it would be a good idea to print it out for your tech.

Here are few coils that Mikes XS says will work, along with the original Yamaha coil part # The second unit has a primary resistance outside the Yamaha specification, use it at your own risk, and I AM hoping the coil is your problem

Note the warning; Do NOT crank the engine without spark plugs attached and grounded. It may cause failure of one or more components.


High Output Replacement Ignition Coil 2.5 Ohms TCi ignition

High Output Replacement Ignition Coil 2.5 Ohms - for 80-84 XS650's with Factory TCi ignition (dual lead - 1 used per bike ). Used on 80-84 models Only, and is Not for contact point systems. Mounts to stock brackets. Plug Wires not included. Not for use with Boyer Ignitions. Mount this coil to stock bracket on opposite side and with high tension plug wires facing to front of bike ( Red/White wire from stock harness goes to + terminal on coil). WARNING!!! Do not operate or apply power to the ignition system with one or both spark plugs disconnected. Operating or applying power to the coil or ignition system with one or both spark plugs disconnected will cause IMMEDIATE FAILURE to the coil. Ignition coils are NOT WARRANTIED for this reason.
OEM Reference #
- 3G1-82310-60


Part #17-6803
$37.50 USD Ea


XS Performance Ignition Coil 3.3 Ohm XS650 1980-84

Dual Tower XS Performance High Output Ignition Coil 3.3 OHM Primary Resistance. 15K OHM Secondary Resistance. Capable of sustained 45KV output with 12.5v DC input. Capable of sustained 75KV output with 14v DC input. Replaces stock factory Tci ignition coils on All 1980 & up models and works with Pamco ignitions (Non rephased engine types). Requires 7mm Dia. High tension spark plug wires (order separate) and 5K OHM spark plug caps. Warning: Serious High Voltage Click here to see Coil Test Data WARNING!!! Do not operate or apply power to the ignition system with one or both spark plugs disconnected. Operating or applying power to the coil or ignition system with one or both spark plugs disconnected will cause IMMEDIATE FAILURE to the coil. Ignition coils are not warrantied for this reason.
OEM Reference #
- 3G1-82310-60-00


Part #17-6810
$76.00 USD Ea.

 

[XSLeo]

Ok. It looks like your bike has an 80 up TCI unit installed. Any dual output coil with 2.5 ohm primary will work. Mike's #17-6803 is a good option.
Leo

 

[XSLeo]

gggGary beat me too it. And with pics.
Leo

 

[rafbobber702]

Wait a damn minute, if you don't know what those terms mean, then how do you know if the coil is bad! Not to be harsh, but first things first!

I know what they are now, since I looked it up earlier. Lol

 

[rafbobber702]

Ok. It looks like your bike has an 80 up TCI unit installed. Any dual output coil with 2.5 ohm primary will work. Mike's #17-6803 is a good option.
Leo

gggGary beat me too it. And with pics.
Leo

Sweet! you guys are awesome, thanks!

But any reason why a bike such as mine would be using an 80's and up TCI unit as oppose to the original setup?

 

[rafbobber702]

Your ignition is the 80 -84 TCI type. What part of your coil was out of electrical spec? How did your tech know the correct specs for the coil if he didn't know what system was firing the coil? Would that coil have had the correct specs for your ignition before it died?

Good questions, I'll relay that info to my mechanic. In regards to what I discovered through the help from you guys. I appreciate the help tremendously.