MEANINGFULL PROTECTION

[Mailman]

Yeah I can’t say I’m with Fortnine on this particular video. I can’t argue against his statistics but I’d rather have the additional protection, I’ve gotta feel it all helps, maybe it won’t stop you from getting a broken bone but I’ve sat in an ER while having gravel and dirt scrubbed out of open wounds with a stiff bristle brush and man let me tell you, it’s an experience you don’t soon forget!
That was back in my carefree t-shirt and open face helmet days. In fact I was riding this very bike,

But now it’s like this!
By the way, there’s about 36 years between photos!

 

[gggGary]

Not sure how you come to that conclusion?
The categories across the top for types of injuries are bruised, cuts, fractures, sprain and internal. So no, I can't see where there's a stipulation a fracture has occurred. What are you seeing that I'm missing?

View attachment 312393

Guess I heard fracture where he said known injury? Maybe not quite as strict but how often are "less than fracture" injuries reported?
Pretty much If I can hide the bike and hobble away it ain't getting reported, how about you ;^) ?

 

[Jim]

Guess I heard fracture where he said known injury? Maybe not quite as strict but how often are "less than fracture" injuries reported?
Pretty much If I can hide the bike and hobble away it ain't getting reported, how about you ;^) ?

Well, I'm guessin' any statistician worth his paycheck would know how to figure that into the numbers?
I'm not a statistician, so unless I see some red flags, I tend to believe 'em.

 

[Melnic]

How many people have a low side crash, walk away and don't report it cause it was a single vehicle incident.
they either ride it off or have it picked up and don't report the incident cause its scratches and minor parts on the bike.
No statistics on how any armor or abrasion resistant materials affected the outcome of injury or recovery time.
My wife cares if I can't complete the honey do list when I get home, not the # of scratches and scrapes on me or the damage to the bike.

 

[Jim]

How many people have a low side crash, walk away and don't report it cause it was a single vehicle incident.
they either ride it off or have it picked up and don't report the incident cause its scratches and minor parts on the bike.
No statistics on how any armor or abrasion resistant materials affected the outcome of injury or recovery time.
My wife cares if I can't complete the honey do list when I get home, not the # of scratches and scrapes on me or the damage to the bike.

It always amuses me the number of people who discount or outright don't believe a study because they don't understand how it was conducted.
Aside from police and hospital reports, data was collected from motorcycle repair shops. You know... the guys Gary was referencing ... the ones who have a scraper but never tell anyone. They take their bikes to repair shops. Consider... we as mechanics who fix their own bikes are definitely in the minority. MOST riders take their bikes to a shop to have the clutch levers, mirrors, signals, handlebars etc replaced. Those guys were contacted and participated in the study.

Other factors too, but if you've decided a study isn't valid because... well... because that's your opinion, then your mind is made up... and fair enough.

Or... you could just read the damn report and the have an informed opinion... or not. Makes me no nevermind.

PS. It wasn't hard to find.

 

[gggGary]

"Yes sir I can do that study for you! You're paying, what results would you like? ;^)
Horse Girls????
Apples and oranges. Horse riding injuries are mostly high falls onto "soft" surfaces. Allison says torso (spine, rib) protection is the goal. popular is a vest with CO2 inflated pads actuated when a string attached to saddle yanks the trigger, IE you've parted company with the horse.
Wings have airbag options, there are similar inflatable vests available too.
He hits on the key point; more impact resistant pads are bigger, how dorky is a street rider willing to look?
Where do the "stiffen on impact" protectors fit in?

 

[gggGary]

I'm wearing my ballistic grade tee shirt and Kevlar flip flops.
Like Vic the damned knee pads are never where they need to be and in any jeans type pantleg they are likely to move out of the abrasion zone?
I've got 5 different pairs of armored leggings not really happy with any of them for various reasons. (I'm cheap, that may have something to do with it.)
The jacket I like best has an armored inner mesh with a weather resistant outer jacket. Easily removed it also doubles as a "not riding" jacket, handy for MC travel.

 

[Adamc]

Tight leathers were use

Tight leathers are to keep the bones from popping out ala complex fracture.

popping out? My one piece are so tight now I can’t even pop in them.
More of a long yank (fnar fnar, no laughing at the back), lots of sweating and swearing; oh why don’t I just lose weight? Nowadays I carry my own onboard airbags. Mind you last time I fell over in the pub, it took me days to recover…

 

[bosco659]

I'm wearing my ballistic grade tee shirt and Kevlar flip flops.
Like Vic the damned knee pads are never where they need to be and in any jeans type pantleg they are likely to move out of the abrasion zone?
I've got 5 different pairs of armored leggings not really happy with any of them for various reasons. (I'm cheap, that may have something to do with it.)
The jacket I like best has an armored inner mesh with a weather resistant outer jacket. Easily removed it also doubles as a "not riding" jacket, handy for MC travel.

A friend that I ride with uses strap on knee pads, the ones that you would get from Home Depot to do flooring, but are sold for use with bikes. I think they look a bit goofy but would probably offer some protection, if they stayed in place during a slide. I’m guessing they would easily end up behind your knee with very little coaxing, then offering little protection.

I just looked on line and it looks like you can spend hundreds on these things. Maybe an option?

 

[Jan_P]

I sometimes ride in T -shirt
Always have solid boots and wear gloves
What I have noticed is that when in T Shirt I tend to drive at slower speeds and not at highways or so
The slower speed can be better for not getting into accidents or falling for that matter.
Since many accidents happens when a fast motorcycle is not noticed by a car getting into the lane from the side
Dont overtake as much.
So I have sometimes wondered if the leather overalls and fairings was forbidden . Motorcyclist would ride at lower average speeds and being at higher speeds at shorter times. Perhaps the total would be less injuries.

I once had a low side at very low speed full leather gear Front wheel lost grip. padding at knees and elbow not the removable sort. sewn in Blinker and gear shifter smashed and some more but myself did not get a bruise nothing.

 

[GLJ]

To protect or not to protect, fact is the question.
This FortNine video raises some interesting theories and questions.
Whats your take on it?

I think that his point is just common sense. How could a elbow, knee or hip pad keep you from breaking a bone? Now are the pads worthless, not at all. The more material between your skin and the road will reduce road rash. Yes they could save you from chipping a elbow or knee cap but not from breaking a bone.
To me personal protection when riding a bike should be a personal decision. If you want to ride in flip-flops and a speedo I don't care. If you ride in full leathers with pads and a helmet that's your choice.
I live in a state that does not have a helmet law. We had one for a short time. It was struck down by the state supreme court. Reason being is a helmet only protects the rider in event of a accident. At the same time they upheld the law on wearing eye protection when on a bike. Reason was eye protection could prevent a accident. Their reasoning was that accidents are a hazard to the general public.
I firmly believe in a free society people should have the right to be stupid.

 

[GLJ]

I need to add they should have the right to be stupid as long as it doesn't endanger other people.
If they wanted to make cars as safe as possible we would have to wear fire suites with helmets when riding in or driving cars. Also the cars would have NASCAR type roll cages with 5 point harnesses. That would not go over well.

 

[Mailman]

If you want to ride in flip-flops and a speedo I don't care.

So I’m good then?

 

[GLJ]

So I’m good then?
View attachment 312513

Yes you are. Just don't stop in my neighborhood and tell any body that you know me.

 

[Jim]

What he said...

 

[40north]

Not sure how you come to that conclusion?
The categories across the top for types of injuries are bruised, cuts, fractures, sprain and internal. So no, I can't see where there's a stipulation a fracture has occurred. What are you seeing that I'm missing?

View attachment 312393

A similar analysis might correlate the crash rate to the amount of "protective stuff"... Ah betcha that ifin ya lay on enough of that stuff maybe you'll survive the crash better, but you will have many more crashes, thus creating a false understanding of "protection"....look ma, ah totaled another Oldsmobile an' ah ain't hurt...

I am laying it on, yes, but I am sincere, too much stuff can be causative of trouble. Limited perception, false sense of protection, the mass of the beanie and leathers and boots...man I can't hardly walk in all that junk...

 

[DogBunny]

Look, all this highly protective gear assumes that you are a recreational rider. That you are going to leave your house, ride for three hours and never get off the bike, except for at a convivence store, and return home. What about people who non-recreationally use their bike for transportation? Are they supposed to go to the grocery store, and walk around the aisles looking like an astronaut? Or, do they spend 15 minutes de-gearing before they go into the store, 15 minutes re-gearing when they leave, and then what do they do with all that gear in-between?

I just bought my first-ever (other than leather jackets) protective gear. Specificaaly with hot weather (Austin, Texas) and "stripability" in mind. Gear that I can wear over normal clothes and quickly remove after walking into the waiting room of my weekly appointment without causing a major stir.

And, I am a cheapskate. Took a chance on these over-pants (after buying, and returning two different pairs of Amazon pants that didn't fit the bill) from AliExpress:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804481035523.html
$59.34, delivered to my door. Note the FULL-LENGTH ZIPPER on either side. So these can be taken on or off in moments, without removing my boots.
Found a summer mesh armored top on Amazon with similar stripability and minimalism.
So, now, I'm still a shorts and t-shirt rider, but with a little something more on top for when I hit the freeway.

 

[jetmechmarty]

And, I am a cheapskate.

I don’t believe that to be true. I’m a buy in for frugal.

 

[Jim]

Look, all this highly protective gear assumes that you are a recreational rider. That you are going to leave your house, ride for three hours and never get off the bike, except for at a convivence store, and return home. What about people who non-recreationally use their bike for transportation? Are they supposed to go to the grocery store, and walk around the aisles looking like an astronaut? Or, do they spend 15 minutes de-gearing before they go into the store, 15 minutes re-gearing when they leave, and then what do they do with all that gear in-between?

I just bought my first-ever (other than leather jackets) protective gear. Specificaaly with hot weather (Austin, Texas) and "stripability" in mind. Gear that I can wear over normal clothes and quickly remove after walking into the waiting room of my weekly appointment without causing a major stir.

View attachment 312824
And, I am a cheapskate. Took a chance on these over-pants (after buying, and returning two different pairs of Amazon pants that didn't fit the bill) from AliExpress:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804481035523.html
$59.34, delivered to my door. Note the FULL-LENGTH ZIPPER on either side. So these can be taken on or off in moments, without removing my boots.
Found a summer mesh armored top on Amazon with similar stripability and minimalism.
So, now, I'm still a shorts and t-shirt rider, but with a little something more on top for when I hit the freeway.

You gonna let us know what you think of 'em when they show up? I'd be interested in hearing.

 

[DogBunny]

You gonna let us know what you think of 'em when they show up? I'd be interested in hearing.

Already showed up, and, as far as I'm concerned, they are great. Exactly what I wanted.
The pants are a bit heavier then I was expecting, especially for "summer breathable" pants, as the listing title states. They actually have a quilted lining. So less "summer breathable," but more protective. Still, a lot lighter than the two pairs of Amazon pants that I returned. They have removable knee armor with adjustable positioning that fits well. No other armor.
The thing that I was most apprehensive about was what size to pick. Be skeptical of sizing when you buy Chinese clothing. The sizing chart in the listing is somewhat inscrutable. I found a sizing chart in a different listing for pants by the same manufacturer that made more sense. I'm 5'-10" and fit, about 150 pounds, and bought the large, and they are about perfect (I wear 34-34 Levi 501s when I weigh 160, and 32-34 currently). Very easy on/off over shorts or jeans. Would probably be okay for someone my height up to about 165 pounds or more.
I searched and searched for INEXPENSIVE over-pants that could be taken on or off OVER BOOTS. That was my number one and number two priority. These were the only thing I found. I'm happy. Number three priority was "summer breathability" -- these don't quite fit that requirement -- would have preferred mesh and/or vents, but you can't always have everything.