Well, it sure looks nice and clean Raymond!
Pete
Pete
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Miss November XS2 tribute
- Thread starter Raymond
- Start date
To get that new style alternator working, you're going to need to change a wire in the harness alternator plug. There is a black ground wire there that ran to your inner brush. This new alternator needs switched power fed to the inner brush.
Paul, yes I remembered to have a loop of wire to lift the chain and a cup hook on a rafter to hang it while it dripped.
Pete, I'm not sure why the bath is not suitable for O-ring chains. Is it because the heat melts the rubber? Or is it because the lube can't penetrate into the chain?
At least the rubber does not appear to have melted . . .
5T - I don't have an alternator plug in the harness - the wiring system is truly a one off. On advice, have replaced the old regulator with a Fiat Uno one, like this:
Miss November's wiring diagram:
The Fiat reg simply replaces the Yam one in the wiring. Green wire from Alternator feeds green on the reg, brown from Ignition feeds the red and I added a black ground from the metal casing. Any advice you can give on what I might need to change will be greatly appreciated.
Pete, I'm not sure why the bath is not suitable for O-ring chains. Is it because the heat melts the rubber? Or is it because the lube can't penetrate into the chain?
At least the rubber does not appear to have melted . . .
5T - I don't have an alternator plug in the harness - the wiring system is truly a one off. On advice, have replaced the old regulator with a Fiat Uno one, like this:
Miss November's wiring diagram:
The Fiat reg simply replaces the Yam one in the wiring. Green wire from Alternator feeds green on the reg, brown from Ignition feeds the red and I added a black ground from the metal casing. Any advice you can give on what I might need to change will be greatly appreciated.
In the wiring drawing you made up, you have a ground wire run to the regulator, rectifier, and alternator. You don't want it run to the alternator anymore. It connected to the inner brush and you don't want it grounded on the new alternator. If you look at the new alternator brush wires, you will see the inner brush has a brown wire connected to it. This is switched power. So, connect that brown wire coming out of the alternator, from the inner brush, to the #10 switched power wire in your diagram. No need to fuse it, it's not fused on the stock set-up other than relying on the main 20A fuse.
Thank you - I think I need to go and look at the alternator and figure out what wire is which.
Do as 5twins has pointed out above. The A type regulator is a bit unusual in that it controls the current as it exits the field winding going to the chassis earth:
Warning: At the Alternator both brush terminals must be isolated from the chassis earth or there will be a direct short: This is particularly important for those converting the older B Type setup to the A Type. 5twins has mentioned which brush terminal goes where.
On the Fiat Regulator:
Warning: At the Alternator both brush terminals must be isolated from the chassis earth or there will be a direct short: This is particularly important for those converting the older B Type setup to the A Type. 5twins has mentioned which brush terminal goes where.
On the Fiat Regulator:
- Red Wire: Provides power to the regulator electronics and is also the voltage regulation reference point.
- Green Wire: this connects to the field winding to control the current flowing through the field winding to the chassis earth.
- Regulator heat sink also functions as the connection to the chassis earth.
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5T, Paul, thank you both. Your answers are undoubtedly correct but unfortunately are pitched at somebody who understands electrics. My problem is when I look at the old and new engines, I see alternators with wires they both look the same to me. Sorry. I have absolutely no clue about field winding and which is inner or outer brush or earthed or not. Wouldn't know a brush if it assaulted me, Officer. And I don't have a standard connector block for reference.
I'm worried now that if I start the engine - luckily, not there just yet - I might damage something with a short circuit.
If it helps, the old alternator had three white, one yellow, one green and one black wire. The new one has three white, one yellow, one green and one brown wire. Yellow goes to safety relay, whites go to rectifier so I guess it's the red and black or brown which we're talking about here?
Sometimes pretend to know enough to rewire a bike but depth of knowledge just ain't there . . .
I'm worried now that if I start the engine - luckily, not there just yet - I might damage something with a short circuit.
If it helps, the old alternator had three white, one yellow, one green and one black wire. The new one has three white, one yellow, one green and one brown wire. Yellow goes to safety relay, whites go to rectifier so I guess it's the red and black or brown which we're talking about here?
Sometimes pretend to know enough to rewire a bike but depth of knowledge just ain't there . . .
Following photo is yours from Entry 954. The photo shows your alternator brush terminals just to left of the crank nut:
This alternator comes from an XS that had electronic ignition. Therefore the brush terminals/connectors are already isolated from the chassis earth.
See the copper ring, this is the outer ring and has some wear marks from the carbon brushes. The inner ring is barely visible through the small hole at the 1 o'clock position. These copper rings connect to opposite ends of the field winding. Those two wires in the photo each connect to a carbon brush which contacts the copper rings to enable electricity to flow through the spinning field winding. The wire that curves up and over the terminal connectors connects to the carbon brush on the inner ring. The bottom wire connects to the brush which contacts the outer copper ring.
From 5twins info we need the +12V supply to connect to the Inner Brush Terminal and the Green Wire from the FIAT Regulator connects to the Outer Brush Terminal.
I hope this helps.
This alternator comes from an XS that had electronic ignition. Therefore the brush terminals/connectors are already isolated from the chassis earth.
See the copper ring, this is the outer ring and has some wear marks from the carbon brushes. The inner ring is barely visible through the small hole at the 1 o'clock position. These copper rings connect to opposite ends of the field winding. Those two wires in the photo each connect to a carbon brush which contacts the copper rings to enable electricity to flow through the spinning field winding. The wire that curves up and over the terminal connectors connects to the carbon brush on the inner ring. The bottom wire connects to the brush which contacts the outer copper ring.
From 5twins info we need the +12V supply to connect to the Inner Brush Terminal and the Green Wire from the FIAT Regulator connects to the Outer Brush Terminal.
I hope this helps.
Thank you, Paul!
I needed the idiot's guide - now I will go and look at alternators new and old with a slightly more insight & understanding. Cheers, Raymond
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On a related question, how warm does the reg get? You will see that Madam Marmalade's is packed in foam rubber - any danger it will overheat?
I needed the idiot's guide - now I will go and look at alternators new and old with a slightly more insight & understanding. Cheers, Raymond
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On a related question, how warm does the reg get? You will see that Madam Marmalade's is packed in foam rubber - any danger it will overheat?
The regulators do not get excessively hot. Best to have free movement of air around them.
I modified your diagram in a shaky manner so you can see where the regulator fits in:
Hope this helps.
I modified your diagram in a shaky manner so you can see where the regulator fits in:
Hope this helps.
Paul and 5Twins (and Jim and many others in fact) know this stuff much better than me - but I would certainly agree on the need for free air movement around the regulator. That is precisely why there are heat sink fins on the body of the device.
The best way to mount it would be on some sort of flexible pads - but with the body of the unit not covered at all.
Paul, your modified diagram absolutely great - shows me what I need to do.
Pete, 5T, I will find a different way to mount the reg. Somewhere with air flow.
Pete, 5T, I will find a different way to mount the reg. Somewhere with air flow.
Bit of a hiatus today - pulled me abs so hardly able to move. Dare not bend from the waist. And laughing is out of the question.
But did have a play with mounting the reg. Due to the lock-down, have to rely on what happens to be lying around. But that's my preferred methodology anyway.
An old plastic number plate was sacrificed. Cut a piece the size and shape of the 'old' regulator, peeled the coloured backing off, drilled it to take the rubber isolators, drilled to take screws to hold the new regulator plus an earth wire:
Test mounted on the battery tray. Reg has to be set at a jaunty angle to leave sufficient un-drilled plastic between the various holes, see? But by luck, this also means the earth wire avoids the projecting tool box:
And it even clears the side panel, which had occurred to me as a possible problem.
So as far as I'm concerned, job's a good 'un.
But did have a play with mounting the reg. Due to the lock-down, have to rely on what happens to be lying around. But that's my preferred methodology anyway.
An old plastic number plate was sacrificed. Cut a piece the size and shape of the 'old' regulator, peeled the coloured backing off, drilled it to take the rubber isolators, drilled to take screws to hold the new regulator plus an earth wire:
Test mounted on the battery tray. Reg has to be set at a jaunty angle to leave sufficient un-drilled plastic between the various holes, see? But by luck, this also means the earth wire avoids the projecting tool box:
And it even clears the side panel, which had occurred to me as a possible problem.
So as far as I'm concerned, job's a good 'un.
That looks very smart Raymond - nice work!
Now - don't laugh - not even a little bit....
Darn it - I told you to not laugh...
Sorry, Pete, but managed not to laugh . . .
Paul, I hope I have interpreted your scheme correctly for hooking up the new alt and reg ? Here is the relevant part of the Orange Peril's wiring diagram:
I have split the brown wire which went to the 'old' regulator - now goes to new reg and alt. The green wire is the other direct connection between them. New alt has no earth. But regulator and rectifier both do.
Today, aches and pains permitting, tighten the alternator nut and sling the exhaust system, foot-pegs, brake lever etcetera back on what should then look a lot like a motorbike.
Anniversary of buying the XS is next month and so far we've only done 400-ish miles. And I still don't know why I bought it.
Life is a very peculiar mathematics.
I have split the brown wire which went to the 'old' regulator - now goes to new reg and alt. The green wire is the other direct connection between them. New alt has no earth. But regulator and rectifier both do.
Today, aches and pains permitting, tighten the alternator nut and sling the exhaust system, foot-pegs, brake lever etcetera back on what should then look a lot like a motorbike.
Anniversary of buying the XS is next month and so far we've only done 400-ish miles. And I still don't know why I bought it.
Life is a very peculiar mathematics.
Looks good to me. Just a matter of flicking the switch to make sure no fuses blow...
Yes, all that's left is the "S&S" check (sparks and smoke, lol), but everything looks fine so you should be OK. Here's a nice little line drawing of your new regulator you might want to download and keep on file. It lists the regulator type (type A) and the wire connections .....
Attempted to adjust clutch.
The book says, loosen the lock-nut:
Either, it's been tightened by someone with stronger wrists than mine. Or perhaps it has never been loosened since leaving factory.
Having loosened the lock-nut (!) seems like a good idea to clean the components up a bit:
The grit in that dish from the worm thingy. So clean the worm housing as well:
Since taking picture, have used petrol and a brush to clean inside engine cover too.
Next will be re-assemble with plenty of grease. Ordinary or molybdenum?
The lock down means I weren't going anyplace anyway.
PS 5T - we crossed in the post. Thank you for your vote of confidence in the connectivity, and the diagram which I will save.
The book says, loosen the lock-nut:
Either, it's been tightened by someone with stronger wrists than mine. Or perhaps it has never been loosened since leaving factory.
Having loosened the lock-nut (!) seems like a good idea to clean the components up a bit:
The grit in that dish from the worm thingy. So clean the worm housing as well:
Since taking picture, have used petrol and a brush to clean inside engine cover too.
Next will be re-assemble with plenty of grease. Ordinary or molybdenum?
The lock down means I weren't going anyplace anyway.
PS 5T - we crossed in the post. Thank you for your vote of confidence in the connectivity, and the diagram which I will save.
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