Show me some broken frames...

[Beau]

I ALWAYS hear about people getting so concerned about people welding their own frames together during garage builds.

Yet, I never see any pictures of frames actually failing and I never hear stories of it either.

Enlighten me.

 

[Travis]

If they do break, there are probably not a lot of guys taking pictures of them and posting them on the internet.

Posted via Mobile

 

[Beau]

....and why not? Seems to me you'd want to get the word out.

I still have never even heard a story about a hardtail breaking.

 

[650sf]

They were killed obviously.

 

[Beau]

Who are "they"?

 

[gggGary]

About 35 years ago I raked and hardtailed a honda 750 in the basement of the dump we lived in as college students. I gas welded it all back together, bondoed it smooth and beat the bejeesus out of it for two years, I bet I did 500 wheelies with that thing. I never even cracked the bondo. A few years later I stick welded a rusty old mobile home frame into a fifth wheel lumber trailer. Our "we're done loading" gauge was when the frame would start to bow, I put 20 or 30 thousand miles on it, in and out of muddy construction sites, never had an issue with the welds. I sold it to a guy who used it to haul concrete forms. If someone who knows welding says the welds look good odds are very good they will never fail.

 

[Beau]

Thank you.

It was the same thing when people told me NOT to cut and shorten the drive shaft on my truck. They claimed it would vibrate or be all out of balance and unsafe. I have not had any problems with it.

My welds are not pretty, but I have welded enough to know that even small tack welds can be pretty damn strong.

We welded one frame and everyone keeps telling us that it will probably break. I'm tired of it. I just want to see what is actually out there.

Now I do understand that just telling people go for it, it's fine isn't the right thing to do either.

 

[gggGary]

Honda had problems with the early CBR600 frames cracking at the rear engine mounts. It wasn't the welds that cracked it was the frame sheet metal, the cracks radiated out from a rear engine mount bolt. Several riders theorized it had to do with 60mph in 6th being an RPM where the engine was "buzzy"

 

[Beau]

Were those aluminum?

 

[CDNTX650]

don't forget GSXR's braking the head tubes clean off.....yes, for real.

 

[Beau]

They also split at the seams.

But what about steel, hard tail frames?

 

[gggGary]

The early cbr600 frames were (thin) steel.
That cracking is a good example of a common failure mode. Vibration induced metal fatigue. Must drive the airplane designers wild dealing with it. It is common to see piston airplane cylinder shrouds look like cheese graters as the cooling fins vibrate right through them. Since most hard tails use heavy wall tube, vibration issues are (most likely?) reduced.

 

[xjwmx]

Enlighten me.

If the weld is bad enough, it will break. - the Buddha

 

[Teebs]

Beau,
How long have you been around a welder? Cars, bikes, the garage in general? Your dad into cars and mods as well? Other family/friends?

 

[Ghetto]

Driveshaft? I thought the same thing, vibration at highway speeds etc.

I have never seen or heard of a frame braking up either.

 

[gggGary]

just got back from a web search on broken weld hardtail and all that shows up is bicycle frame failures hardtail is a term used with mountain bikes. I noticed that even from bicycle racers it was the frames owner discussing the failure. I would image the odds of death by beer are at least a thousand times greater than death by weld break.

 

[Beau]

Beau,
How long have you been around a welder? Cars, bikes, the garage in general? Your dad into cars and mods as well? Other family/friends?

I have welded for about 10 years on and off. Not very much. The only training I had was in junior high with gas welders and stick welders. Otherwise I just learned from making things stick and breaking them. I'm not a very good welder though IMO.

My Dad and other family members were into drinking and fishing. They didn't teach me a thing.

 

[Beau]

just got back from a web search on broken weld hardtail and all that shows up is bicycle frame failures hardtail is a term used with mountain bikes. I noticed that even from bicycle racers it was the frames owner discussing the failure. I would image the odds of death by beer are at least a thousand times greater than death by weld break.

I have broke a lot of bicycles. But they are made from butted aluminum and lightweight stuff. It's pretty common to see hardtail mountain bikes break.

I tried typing in rigid and got nothing.

 

[Teebs]

Well, the reason I asked is that what you have for experience is a lot more than some of the guys on here who have never used a welder in their lives.

Give it a few years and then do that search again. You aren't finding any cases now because the average suburbanite welding hardtails in their subdivision garage is a completely new thing. It's only a matter of time.

I'm not saying that every guy that attempts a weld-on conversion is going to kill themselves, but there are a fair share of utterly incompetent, completely stupid, absolutely mechanically retarded boys out there thinking that MIG welding is so easy that anybody can do it, when that's not the case. The appearance of MIG welds can be deceiving as hell. (Maybe I should start encouraging guys to use a flux core welder...)

 

[Beau]

Yeah, I didn't want to start this thread so all the new people would go out and buy a Harbor Fright (not Freight) welder and get to work in their kitchen. I'm still cautious about even welding my own up.

I was just wondering.