Some simple noob questions.....

[xjeffx]

I have a 1980 xs650 and i pulled the engine to replace some seals and clutch springs.

Q: 1. Should the clutch basket be tightened down all the way? or is there a specific tension?

2. I pulled the starter motor (because it was shot) and wanna run just kick start. When i go to kick start (engine off the bike) the front sproket turns but i do not hear the the pistons moving up or down and the intake manifolds (carbs are off too) are not sucking in air. Any ideas?

3. Also my pushrod is about a 1/4" from the clutch push screw housing when the side casing is on. Did i loose a ball bearing? if so, where did it go and how do i get it out?

4. What is the best way to install a longer push rod? Do i need ball bearings?

Thanks in advance to all that respond!

 

[gggGary]

Answer to #1 here
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3408

 

[PhatTony]

#2 is your clutch still disassembled? The clutch has to be fully assembled to move the crank with either the kickstart or e-start

#3 if it's too short you missed a part. On the three piece pushrods there are two ball bearings, two shafts and the cltuch engagement "mushroom"

#4 Why do you want a longer clutch push rod? There's no advantage as far as I can see. The early one piece push rods will fit in all the XS engines. MikesXS sells one as well as 650central.

 

[xjeffx]

the clutch is assembled. How am i missing a ball bearing? did it fall in the engine?

 

[nj1639]

There's a ball bearing that sits in the worm gear, they're kinda just pressed on there and easily fall out. The worm gear is the clutch adjustment at the left side cover. If that's what is missing....find it and put some heavy grease on it to hold it in place.. You shouldn't lose any bearings in the engine.

 

[PhatTony]

Like nj said, if you put the ball bearings in they are there. No way to lose them in the engine. I was just assuming that you didn't put all the ball bearings in since your clutch rod was 1/4 short. I was wrong as well, I forgot about the ball bearing in the worm gear. So three bearings all together.
If all pieces of the clutch rod are there then I'm not sure what's going on with your bike. Maybe the clutch hub isn't seated properly, maybe your clutch discs are jammed not allowing the clutch plate to return to the engaged position. Do you have any pics of the right side with the cover off?

 

[xjeffx]

i'll try to get some pics up soon. Thanks for your help.

 

[xjwmx]

Regarding #1

If the screws through the clutch springs are just tightened with a screwdriver, why does it usually take an impact driver to get them lose? I'm getting ready to bust into mine, so I want to understand any mysteries in advance....

 

[5twins]

They seem to get tighter after they've been in there awhile. Carb jets seem to do the same, not sure why. Maybe it's the multiple heat expansions and cooling contractions or maybe in the clutch's case, the rotation of the hub may spin them in tighter. They're only an M6 screw with a torque value of about 7 ft/lbs, so they're not installed all that tight to begin with.

 

[XSLeo]

Disimular metals make a small electrical current, theres a big 50 cent word for it. Just can't think of it right now. This current corrodes the metals and kinda welds them together.
On the ball in the adjuster, at the factory they crimp the end of the worm to hold the ball in place.
As the clutch spins the rods spin, this wears the crimps away. When you pull the left cover, the ball can fall out. If your careful when you pull the cover the ball will stay in place.
When you have the cover off, cleaning the worm and the place it screws into and greasing them makes the clutch work better. Putting a good dab of grease in where the ball sets will hold the ball in place.

 

[xjwmx]

I meant the screws holding the clutch together. In that thread about replacing them with Allen screws, some of the old Phillips are actually stretched in a picture there. That's tight, not stuck.

 

[5twins]

That was the 1st time I've ever seen stretched ones. Many of the clutches I've taken apart have had the screw heads all buggered up but I never ran across any stretched screws. The beauty of the Allens is you can easily put a torque wrench on them and properly torque them. With the Phillips, the usual routine is to tighten them by hand and then to give each one a whack or 2 with the hand impact for final tightening. All I can think of is that whoever installed those stretched ones must have beat that impact 8 or 10 times, maybe more. You will most likely need the hand impact to get yours out, I wouldn't even try without it.

 

[XSLeo]

With the hand impact you can take the socket that the bits go in and put it on your torque wrench. It will work ok as long as the screws aren't too beat up.

 

[xjwmx]

My impact isn't reversing. I have no idea what 7 ft. lbs. feels like with a screwdriver either It seems like a logical thing then would be to tighten them as tight as I can with the screwdriver without buggering the head. That will be more than 7 ft lbs I think, but less than it takes to break them, so it seems like it should be a good plan. A bit on my torque wrench would be too awkward to keep straight I think.

 

[5twins]

Sounds like it's time for a new impact, lol. Start watching eBay for a Vessel. These are the Cadillac of hand held impacts, been around for 50 years or more. I got one when I was a kid at the local hardware store for about $8. They still make and sell that same model but now it costs near $60. I just picked up another off eBay for $4.99. It was missing the case and the bit holder but it had never been hit by a hammer.

 

[xjwmx]

Any excuse to dawdle is good enough for me. Waiting for a reversible impact to show up on ebay is as good as any...

 

[gggGary]

My hand impact is going on 40 years old I bought it new and have been beating on it ever since, I don't think I have ever even oiled it. It was a brand name but probably made by someone else and just labeled. I don't recall ever seeing a hand impact that didn't reverse? From experience loosening or tightening those clutch screws requires the impact at least until the JIS phillips bits I ordered show up and probably even then. Next set will get the allen head mod.

 

[xjwmx]

I wouldn't be surprised to find something as bright as the Allen screws mod, but funkier, already in mine. My p.o. was funky but bright. With the exception of the wood screws holding the headlight in.