Could a washer destroy a bike?

[peanut]

Minor side track, I was brought up on vernier scales and slide rules but was never a machinist. Hand me a digital caliper please. I only grab the vernier when the others are a long walk away. Then I have to "relearn" reading it, each year that is more of an effort, With "works fine" digitals in the $10 USD range it's kinda hard to believe verniers are still sold.

thats probably my fault I'm afraid. I should have stipulated a digital version . I naturally assumed a digital version would have been chosen. I'm still using a Dial vernier guage I've used since my 9mm & .45 reloading days circa 1996 Its easy to read and I prefer it to Digital.....but a sliding vernier ughhh

 

[Bob Kelly III]

LOL Hay anything is better than guessing !!!!
....
Bob.......

 

[650Skull]

you guys from the states would be looking for alternatives if you had to pay the price of tools that we pay down under. Ebay. a digital caliper can be bought for $7.00........ made in China.

A caliper as bought by the PO can be bought for $18.00. a digital caliper will be around the $40-50.00 range. A dial caliper is in the $80-200 range.

I'm concerned about the pic Peanut posted...........the caliper is closed and the dial shows .8mm..............the dial can be reset i would guess. The increments on the bar still shows .8mm when the jaws are closed................If a precision tool is put away like this does it mean it was used with this deviation on purpose at the last reading or is it used like this?

When using a precision tool it is important to check the calibration before and after every use..............

How do you guys check your digital caliper is reading correct?

 

[Michaelo]

Correct Skull, should be checked to the relevant standard, using a calibrated block at 23 ° C, the temp is from memory

 

[650Skull]

Yea Mick temperature is important, (didn't know what the calibration blocs temp was though), with these tools. I always keep mine in the coolest part of the house, no aircon and live in the tropics.................Another good reason not to buy a plastic precision tool...............Hell i wouldn't buy a plastic 30 Meter tape for setting out houses due to temp expanding the tape and it would stretch more when setting out. Always steel.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

I like having the dial caliper's needle pointing straight up. There's instructions out there on the Web for re-indexing the needle's gear to the caliper's frame rack gear.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/what-have-you-done-to-your-xs-today.32082/page-122#post-497554

Word of caution about dial calipers (especially the budget versions). Many have a 'varying' accuracy of greater than 0.001", meaning that at one point on the dial the measurement is accurate, and at the other side, can be more than 0.001" off. You would need a set of standards to find the pattern of this variance, and mark corrections on your caliper.

Myself, I'll use my calibrated calipers for general (+/- 0.001" or +/-0.002") work. But for precision fitments, I'll use micrometers that have been calibrated to my standards.

 

[gggGary]

Well they ARE calipers not mics, the digitals have a zero reset ( also makes for simple subtraction math)
And yes I have set of precision 1,2,3 blocks. I buy online from china for the "super deals" also, it's easier than the 40 mile drive to harbor freight.
Good (enough) Fast Cheap I invested in a 12" digital caliper also, they're a bit more

 

[Bob Kelly III]

I had a vineer type calaper...only as accurate as my magnifing glass was.... it went through the house fire now only about half the engraved marks are left and I can't read the numbers to save me..... so I really don't have one now....
I was thinking of getting a Stanley didgital rather than the H.F. cheepie,..... has anyone ever got one of those ?
I don't even know what to look for in a calaper other than when it's closed it should read zero ! LOL
......
Bob........

 

[AussiXS]

Do you know how to read the vernier scale, for the fractions?
The steels should be 1.35mm (0.053"), your caliper shows that.
The frictions should be 3.0mm (0.118"), your caliper shows that.

Thicknesses look ok.
Your pic #1 of post #74, of the assembled (7) plate clutchpack, looks ok...

TwoMany, you got me!

I have no idea what the hell it is or what it does haha! I saw the digital one there but thought it would be inaccurate over time, being digital I thought it would get a bit of dust on the sensor and just be rubbish. Are you all telling me that is not correct? I will go back to Supercheap Auto and swap it.......hopefully. I am a big fan of buying once (after my experience with this bike).

So are we all saying that my clutch plates and steel plate look good? The gap in the basket looks very similar to this picture. I will look at my clutch worm this weekend and see what is up!

What a cracking forum, you guys have all the knowledge! I will learn!

 

[650Skull]

If you paid for the $18.00 one that is as good as for a non digital or dial one. I bought one of those and its as good as........I am of the same mind and with my luck i would drop it or the digital display would get broken or fail..........As ggGary says as the eyes go, tis harder to see the incriments

 

[AussiXS]

I got the $18 one Skull, I hope they will take the refund. Then I don't have to get a calculator out every time I want inches.

Twomany, your worm gear piece is real helpful, what do you think has caused the issues?

Do we think that my cable to too short? See the attached picture from my fantastic video, the worm gear and spring are pulled in at around the 9:30pm mark, is that normal?

Maybe my clutch is fine and its just the gear?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

AussieXS, your worm actuator (the part with the steel screw and lever) is simply setting proud of its nylon base by 1 thread. Disconnect the spring, rotate the thing clockwise, one thread past where it is now, to the 3 O'clock position (per peanut's video), and screw it back in. Reconnect the spring. It'll set lower now. Compare to my pics. That should be all that was wrong with your clutch.

Edit: You'll need to rebend the seal cup flat...

 

[peanut]

.

I'm concerned about the pic Peanut posted...........the caliper is closed and the dial shows .8mm..............the dial can be reset i would guess. The increments on the bar still shows .8mm when the jaws are closed................If a precision tool is put away like this does it mean it was used with this deviation on purpose at the last reading or is it used like this?

When using a precision tool it is important to check the calibration before and after every use..............

Skull .......Dial gauges are constructed with a revolving dial which is the means by which they are reset to zero on every use .
I'm concerned that you do not know this yet feel free to offer someone advice about their use ?

Regarding the 0.8mm reading on the gauge well I'm busted .! I undoubtably put the gauge away in the case without zeroing the dial the last time I used it.
Naughty naughy me ...on the naughty step for me.

I have not looked after this gauge as well I might have as can plainly be seen but in my defence I have to say that since I bought them 25 years ago there has hardly been a day when I haven't used them . I've had my moneysworth and they still perform faultlessly.

Regarding precision well the gauge is calibrated to an accuracy of 0.02mm which is 0.000787 inches in your money. Thats more than adequate for anything needed on a 30 year old motorbike if I need greater accuracy I use my Dial Micrometer

So now I feel ashamed so I'm off to clean up my gauge before I put it back in the box ready for the next 25 years service

 

[650Skull]

Just a observation peanut.........thought it a bit odd the dial gauge was showing the .8mm as well as the visible increment on the bar showing about the same .8mm. maybe it was manufactured like this???..........

 

[peanut]

Just a observation peanut.........thought it a bit odd the dial gauge was showing the .8mm as well as the visible increment on the bar showing about the same .8mm. maybe it was manufactured like this???..........

nah its just how I left it like that .
Its had some serious abuse over the years but it still works well enough and as you say new dial gauges are expensive now.

Its a pretty simple instrument really. The accuracy is all in the rack. As long as the rack isn't worn or damaged then the dial will always read correctly because the dial needle makes one revolution every 1mm so there is no chance of any gradual accuracy creep unless the needle slips on the spindle and that would show up right away

 

[gggGary]

since we have thoroughly hijacked the thread....

Measuring that OLD 1-2-3 block, all were mighty darned close, both the digitals could be pushed hard enough to register .0005" to .001" small of the even inch and were consistent at all three dimensions. So just like the days of yore if you know your tools you can get darn close repeatable measurements.
The vernier showed the inch with no noticeable under size. (had to use a magnifying glass to confirm) The vernier and 1-2-3 block were my daddy's, he made the wood case. The front is decimal and fractional inch the rear has a coarse metric scale, Mahr made in Germany, probably 1960s vintage. The 6" digital has been in my box for at least 4 years now. an occasional battery is needed.
Verniers aren't THAT hard to read, lots of youtube how to's. Here's one;

it's actually easier than they make it sound....

 

[AussiXS]

@ AussiXS, the gear you are asking about is the number 4 starter gear. Put a screwdriver against it and you will see it slides in, to mesh with the crank and that is what spins the motor. You are this far in I would go ahead and tighten the wishbone clip spring on the number 4 gear. Too loose and your gear spins too fast trying to mesh with the crank. Behind that gear is a coil spring that returns the gear or helps with dis-engagement I like to give it a pull to stretch back out some. In the past some have removed this coil spring. 5twins or PamcoPete can comment more on this, maybe others.
View attachment 98754

Could you please elaborate on this a bit more? Are you talking about the wishbone starter gear spring where you use a vice to tighten it to 8lbs pressure? Or is it something else? I am having big issues with my first gear, it grinds and slips and makes a terrible noise. I have to start in second. Do you have a fix for this?

 

[AussiXS]

After all this dicking around, it turns out all I needed to do was install my worm actuator correctly. Toomany, you were spot on, I took it off to grease it before all this happened and totally forgot. I should of factored that in. Anyway, it's all in place there and the clutch appears to work. However, I have not assembled it all as I want to see what else I should be doing while I have the case off. Weekendrider mentioned 4th started gear. Anyone know why my first gear was messy? It got a lot worst after I greased the worm actuator but it was lunging and making a terrible before all this. Thoughts y'all?

 

[AussiXS]

Also, they refunded my caliper and I bought the digital one and it's great!

My clutch plates are 0.115 inch
My steel plates are 0.056

 

[Michaelo]

Why use imperial when thes bikes are metric? Good to see you have a vernier calliper you can read....