A little help needed regarding wiring of the safety relay on '80 Special

[T6h6o6r]

Hi y'all!

So... I might of made a little mistake today, it's not really that big of a deal (at least I hope not, haha!) but while I was working on replacing all of the big bulky white connector plugs in my wiring harness, I went and chopped the plug off of my safety relay before realizing that it had TWO of the same red wires with white stripes, and now I have no idea which is which and which one plugged into where on the other end... So I'm here to ask will it matter if those 2 wires get switched around? And if so, can anyone offer a suggestion as to how I might go about figuring out which is what and connects to where?? Many thanks in advance, sorry if it's a silly question I just don't wanna end up frying something by doing it eenie meenie money moe and end up regretting it, haha. So, figured better 2 be safe than sorry and just ask ..

 

[Raymond]

Which safety relay is that?

The XS has a number of safety relays for the starter, the side-stand, the clutch. You don't actually need any of these but if removing or by-passing one of them you need to ensure the rest of the wiring still functions.

 

[jpdevol]

Here ya go.....

 

[T6h6o6r]

So, it looks like one of the red/white wires goes to the light checker, and the other one branches off and heads to the igniter unit / the run/kill switch on the handlebars...

Sooo... What the heck is a light checker?? Never heard of it before. The relay I'm referencing is the one on the upper right side of that wiring diagram BTW.

...The one labeled "Safety Relay"

 

[jpdevol]

IIRC the "light checker" is a small grey box labelled "light checker". From the harness side, check continuity of a red/white wire @ safety relay to the terminal at the ignition coil. Connect the wire that has continuity to the coil to the R/W on the relay next to the blue wire. Connect the other R/W to the other harness R/W wire that should have continuity to the "light checker".

 

[jpdevol]

Correction - I mis-remembered - the little grey box is the "reserve lighting unit".

Are you planning to eliminate all the extra "checkers, safety thingys"? If so, there are other wiring diagrams in Tech Section here

 

[T6h6o6r]

Yeah, I've already removed all that extra crap, reserve lighting unit = gone, flasher self canceller = outta here, TCI box removed and replaced by Pamco. And I got rid of that hideously huge and unnecessary battery box contraption that is a major pain in the ass to try and remove from where it sits trapped inside the frame... I'm moving everything into a small box I welded together and am gonna mount beneath the seat- New fuse box, starter relay, turn signal flasher relay, ignition key switch, and the safety relay. Whilst attempting to reduce as much bulk as possible to fit it all in there, I was also getting rid of those giant white plastic connectors that come stock with the bike and occasionally replacing them with smaller options or for the most part I've just been using some water-sealed M&F spade connectors and just plugging each wire in individually, which also offers much more freedom of choice with how I choose to rout the updated wire harness. But because Im a bonehead sometimes I destroyed the plug that was attached to the safety relay without marking the wires first because I had failed to notice that there were 2 of the same color wire coming from that relay. Which is what brings me here looking for some good advice from these knowledgeable folk before I did any more damage haha

 

[jpdevol]

Unless you want to keep it, you can eliminate the safety relay too. One of its main functions is to prevent starter relay from working once engine is running via yellow wire from stator to R/W circuit. I've found it's not a big deal to avoid starter engagement, but have engaged by accident - no problems resulted.

 

[T6h6o6r]

So... Do I need to do anything special with any of the wires that were running to/from that safety relay, should I decide to can it as well? Or is it just unplug relay, chop off now-unused connector, (which, as we know, is already gone in my case, but i'm just asking from the perspective of starting with an unmolested part, to simplify in case someone else is reading this in the future) then cap off exposed wire ends and off we gooo?

I mean, It's not like a car where sometimes (too often) your wife may not realize it's already running and try to crank it, (true story) lol.

GRRRRRIIIIIINNNNDDDDD
"Oops! Oh shit baby I fucked up and did it again!"

"Yep! ya sure did! Ha! Boy I'm I glad I'm just your partner and not your starter! Cuz I might start thinkin you had it out for me! Remember, that IS eventually gonna fuck off that starter, and unlike my XS, your car NEEDs a starter, or it WON'T start. Period. So, dear, try n take it easy will ya? cause I can't afford buying you a new one right now at all... Hey, pro tip- if your not sure, try turning down the music before u try turning the key!"

... Less than a week later
GRRRRRIIIIIINNNNNDDDDDD

...facepalm.

Anyways... back to the bike, haha... Im pretty sure when this baby is running myself and all my neighbors know for a fact she's running... And I don't see myself getting any urges to hit the start button over and over while she's running just to see what happens to MY starter, (maybe it will fix that slipping friction clip issue?!?) so im pretty sure there wouldn't be any harm in getting rid of the safety relay... However, one less part means one less complication, means one less possible vector for trouble... and I'm ALL about that!

( Plus I always prefer danger and risk to inherent safety anyways! )

Well.. looks like there might just be one less thing now to shove into the little box* I welded up under the seat, which is good cause space is at a premium in there, lemme tell ya! Haha. I had to cut out a section of wall on one side and weld in a little "extension" cubby for the starter relay to have a place to live lol.


(*That sounded something like what my last GF said when she was dumping me...)

 

[gggGary]

You may find starter run on is an issue with the relay removed. That's why yamaha added it, to kick the starter out faster than you possibly can react to hearing the motor catch, not accidental second start attempts. I had to reinstall the relay on madness for this reason.

 

[jpdevol]

You may find starter run on is an issue with the relay removed. That's why yamaha added it, to kick the starter out faster than you possibly can react to hearing the motor catch, not accidental second start attempts. I had to reinstall the relay on madness for this reason.

Hmmm....forgot about that tach circuit thingy (I bet it's gone too). Does that circuit exist on a G/SG? I remember it (safety relay) working on yellow wire from stator (same purpose though)

 

[gggGary]

Hmmm....forgot about that tach circuit thingy (I bet it's gone too). Does that circuit exist on a G/SG? I remember it (safety relay) working on yellow wire from stator (same purpose though)

Um, yeahhh I think they DO mean the Yellow wire out of the stator. ;^)

 

[5twins]

That safety relay is a double relay. One is for the starter, the other is for the headlight. If you remove it, you'll need to reconnect the headlight somehow. I suggest running it through an on/off switch so you can switch it off during starting.

 

[jpdevol]

IIRC this schematic for custom harness is from INXS. 5Twins is saying headlight circuit (stock harness) won't be powered w/o Safety relay. I think he suggests powering headlight circuit via switch from existing Red/Yellow wire to Yellow wire @ relay, but could be other switched power source?? Just depends on how much of stock system (harness, etc.) you're using

 

[Jim]

Comin' up on 3 yrs now with the cutout circuit disabled during start on the SG. Still haven't had any run-on issues.
And I read nothing in that paragraph that says it was added to prevent run-on. Just reread.
It's a "Bendix" style engagement system. Soon as engine rpm exceeds starter motor rpm, it'll disengage... whether it wants to or not.

 

[5twins]

No, the yellow wire has nothing to do with it. The red/yellow wire is headlight power coming out of the fuse box and running to the safety relay. You need to re-direct that to the hi/lo switch, preferably through an on/off switch or the headlight will always be on ( turn on with the key).

 

[jpdevol]

Yea, that got confusing: I was referring to the yellow headlight circuit wire not the previous reference to yellow stator wire......sorry

 

[gggGary]

Comin' up on 3 yrs now with the cutout circuit disabled during start on the SG. Still haven't had any run-on issues.
And I read nothing in that paragraph that says it was added to prevent run-on. Just reread.
It's a "Bendix" style engagement system. Soon as engine rpm exceeds starter motor rpm, it'll disengage... whether it wants to or not.

All I know is on Madness (a high comp 750 if that makes a diff) the starter would wind up pretty high before kicking out when I removed the relay. Possibly a foible of that particular drive.
Thought that extra high RPM spin wouldn't be good for bearings or commutator so put it back in. I've never had the starter out of that bike. And a few times while working on carbs it got a lot of exercise.
It's helpful to look in the earlier manuals when Yamaha thought to explain why they incorporated features and design, operation principles , the later manuals started the trend towards "shut up and replace parts" type mechanic relations. A sad trend.

 

[jpdevol]

Yes, the early manuals didn't assume much. I started with a JT2MX; the manual went into great detail on new concepts like "autolube", porting, etc.

Later manuals: "remove ______" without any explanation of how that removal happens and - as we all know- it's often anything but intuitive.

 

[T6h6o6r]

Hmmm... I see..... wellllll well well suddenly it's not quite as simple as it was made to appear at first, haha. Maybe I'll just leave it in there after all... Still on the fence for now, but I'll post on which choice I've made when I get there... I'm hoping today to also get around to replacing the tension spring on that gear #4 that the above article also mentioned and hopefully finally get rid of that blasted grinding sound when I try to start it but the gear doesn't engage... So much BS to deal with when all I wanna do is ride around, hauling ass with the wind in my face!!! Is it really so much to ask??hah