From Special to cafe'

[ThatXS650Guy]

Hi Gang, I've been slowly bringing back my 1979 Special back to life. I've got it running after sitting for 23 years which meant cleaning the carbs, replacing the air filters, changing the oil and battery, and rebuilding the brake system. It can be ridden now and is 100% stock.

What I want to do is make a café bike out of it. Nothing too extreme at first but maybe little by little until I get serious and take it down to the frame.

My question is, is there anything about doing that with the Special as a starting point I need to know? I know the frame is slightly different and the seat and bars are horrendous but what else would keep me from doing the café thing to this?
Can I use the stock seat pan and still get a flat seat by doing some custom upholstery? It seems wide to me.
How far can I raise the forks in the triple clamps without causing problems?
Ditch the air box? What about the crankcase vents?

I have a lot more questions but I'll save them for when I do a build thread. I need to finish a few projects before I can get too serious with this one but I wanted to start planning a little and do some pre-build shopping.

TIA,
Jim

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Jim,
even if they look perfect those 23 year old tires will be as hard as wood and won't grip the road worth a damn, please tell me you put new tires on it.
Apart from minor details, the only difference between a Standard and a Special is the Special's upper shock mounts are further forward to increase the shock angle.
You can cafe the one as easy as t'other.
There's some as loves the rototiller bars but yeah, I'd swap them ASAP for something straighter and lower.
I'd not care about the seat width (how wide is your arse, eh?) but the hump and hiback gotta go.
What I did was to remove the cover and foam, saw off the hiback part of the seat base and weld on a sheetmetal patch to look like a normal seat base.
Carving the existing foam with an electric knife and putting on a Saddlemens cover made the seat not perfectly flat but a lot flatter than it was.
The fork tubes will hit the bars at ~1" through. Higher than that, ditch the bars and use clip-ons.
If you ditch the airbox you gotta retune the carbs and fit pods that don't obscure the carbs' peripheral air intakes.
Use a small air filter on the crankcase vent or fit a brake cylinder one way valve or vent it onto the chain like on grandpa's Norton.
Some suggestions:-
Swap in a Standard gas tank. It's one gallon bigger and drops right on.
Drill or slot the brake rotors.
Toss the old stock fabric brake hoses and upgrade to Stainless wire braid ones.
Add the second front brake rotor (XS650 or XS11 parts) & leftside caliper (XS750/850/1100 Standard) while keeping the stock brake lever.
Scottoiler works good too.

 

[ThatXS650Guy]

LOL. I know the tires are toast. I've only risked a couple of low speed passes on the street in front of my house. I love the white lettering though...

Your advice was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! Can't wait to get started on it.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Jim,
RWL tires are still readily available. You choose which tires.
Be advised, do NOT start a tire thread.
Tire threads can get divisive and ugly with the smart guys agreeing with my choice and the damn fools choosing otherwise.

 

[5twins]

You are very limited on how much you can raise the fork tubes in the trees. If you pull the springs and fully compress the forks, you'll see that there is very little space between the lowers and the lower triple tree, maybe 5/8". Raise the tubes more than that and you run the risk of the lowers slamming into the lower tree on full fork compression. I run mine dropped about 1/4" is all. Can't say I notice much difference but it is supposed to more firmly plant the front end and give improved steering feel.

 

[scabber]

The tires are Goodyear eagles first ones I have seen they are rare my guess. For minor changes I would change the bars and seat. If the exhaust hasn't been tampered best leave it alone. The eurosport bars look good on the specials. Nice bike by the way.

 

[Chito]

What? That seat is amazing. It looks like the little floor rockers I used sit in while playing video games as a kid.

You're doing it right in my opinion. Make a couple of cosmetic tweaks and ride it. That way if you do decide to tear it down, you'll have a baseline for comparison.

 

[ThatXS650Guy]

Thanks for all the advice. Got another question regarding the rear wheel.
Is there a mate for the front mag in a 18" that will work in the rear (rather than the stock 16") or would I need to convert to spokes. I thought if there was I could keep my eyes open while I am still in the planning stage.
TIA,
Jim

 

[kopcicle]

just in case .

I (I Think) , I think the stock alloy wheels are butt fugerly so I never bothered to find out .

~kop

 

[fredintoon]

Thanks for all the advice. Got another question regarding the rear wheel.
Is there a mate for the front mag in a 18" that will work in the rear (rather than the stock 16") or would I need to convert to spokes. I thought if there was I could keep my eyes open while I am still in the planning stage.
TIA,
Jim

Hi Jim,
you already got spokes, but you mean wire spokes, eh?
What you can do is fix up a 19" front wheel to run as a rear, there's recent posts about how it was done.
Dunno if there's an 18" disk brake artillery wheel in Yamaha's stable that'd fit though.
What's wrong with the 16" that you already have?

 

[kopcicle]

disk brake artillery wheel

priceless

~kop

 

[ThatXS650Guy]

just in case .

I (I Think) , I think the stock alloy wheels are butt fugerly so I never bothered to find out .

~kop

Perhaps. I think they would look OK. I would prefer wire spokes but I am on a budget.

 

[ThatXS650Guy]

Hi Jim,

What's wrong with the 16" that you already have?

Not a thing. I saw an article in the recent VJMC mag where a guy converted a Special to a Standard where he changed the rear from a 16 to a 18. I thought it looked much better. It didn't have the rear end bias the Specials have.

 

[5twins]

No bolt-on, drop-in 18" mags with discs, or drums for that matter. You would have to adapt something from another model. One of the big problems with other wheels is the sprocket size. The 650 uses a very small sprocket compared to most other bikes.

 

[ThatXS650Guy]

Thanks 5Twins. That is what I was looking for. I'll hang with the 16". I need to get tires for it and I didn't want to spend the coin if I was going to be able to go to a different size. I still could, I guess but not easily.

 

[fredintoon]

Not a thing. I saw an article in the recent VJMC mag where a guy converted a Special to a Standard where he changed the rear from a 16 to a 18. I thought it looked much better. It didn't have the rear end bias the Specials have.

Hi Jim,
aesthetics aside, there ain't much ride difference between an XS650's 16" and an 18" rear wheels.
I swapped my Heritage Special's cast wheels for earlier XS650 wire wheels because, Oh yes, they do look prettier.
After I got sick of the rigorous cleaning and polishing routine needed to keep them looking pretty, I swapped them back again.
So, overall gearing don't change much.
110/90-18 tire has a little less than 5/8" bigger outside diameter than a 130/90-16.
That's less than a single rear sprocket tooth.
110/90-18 is more nimble on corners. 130/90-16 is steadier going straight.
Not by much, just enough to notice.
Swapover:-
Drum to drum, just remove the one and bolt up the other.
Disk to drum, you will also need to fabricate and weld the different torque stay tab onto the swingarm.
Leave the original tab in place so you can swap back.

 

[grizld1]

Jim, if you want to get the rear end up, all you need to do is to change shocks; the Special frames angle the shocks lower than the Standards, and I recommend 13.5" to 14" eye-to-eye length.

Shock change will help, but if you keep the OE wheels you'll still be stuck with a rim that needs a tire that's too wide for quick handling (don't start yapping about wide sport bike tires, children, they go on machines with very different frame geometry). Also, ugliness isn't the only problem with the old Yamaha cast wheels. They're boat anchors, and you don't need all that unsprung weight if you mean to put together a machine that you can go dancing on.

 

[fredintoon]

Jim, if you want to get the rear end up, all you need to do is to change shocks; the Special frames angle the shocks lower than the Standards, and I recommend 13.5" to 14" eye-to-eye length.

Shock change will help, but if you keep the OE wheels you'll still be stuck with a rim that needs a tire that's too wide for quick handling (don't start yapping about wide sport bike tires, children, they go on machines with very different frame geometry). Also, ugliness isn't the only problem with the old Yamaha cast wheels. They're boat anchors, and you don't need all that unsprung weight if you mean to put together a machine that you can go dancing on.

Hi grizld,
you forgot to say that longer shocks lessen the effective rake angle which reduces the front wheel's trail which quickens the steering.
And while Yamaha's artillery wheels may be a tad heavy, within the accuracy of a bathroom scale, Yamaha's wire wheels are no lighter.

 

[grizld1]

Right, Fred. Raising the rear and dropping the nose a tad also reduces the inherent top-heaviness of the XS650 a bit. Steering becomes more linear, and the bike becomes more controllable when you pitch it way over. I don't know which wire wheels you're referring to, but if you mean the 74-79 wheels with alloy rims, you need to check your scale. Also all things being equal, a 130/16/90 tire is going to be considerably heavier than a 110/18/90. But given that you've hung an extra 10 lbs. hung on your front end, I doubt that wheel weight would concern you.

 

[ThatXS650Guy]

Thanks Guys. I was already considering the longer shocks. Didn't know about the shock angle. I'll keep the mag wheels for now and look for some longer shocks.