Hard to get into neutral

[jun8ior]

Hello,
I have a 79 XS650.

Since I've had the bike, I have adjusted the clutch to make it easier, but at the same time, it is hard to get into neutral. It's often impossible to get into neutral when it's in first at standstill, and when changing from second to neutral, it often slips past to first.

I'm often stuck at the lights holding the clutch in because I am stuck in first.

The chain does need a good clean and lube, but it feels more like a clutch adjustment issue.
When I loosen the rod & bolt to adjust the clutch, if I back it off more, then the clutch is released when the handle is far out, which is not what I want.

I'd like it to release around the middle.


Any tips on how to fix the issue of getting into neutral from 1st and second (at stand still and riding).

Cheers!

M

 

[WideAWAKE]

Join the club!! Haha.

seems so much is right about an xs, there has gotta be some wrong - neutral can be a pain.

I do it while coasting to a stop, never once stopped.

a proper clutch adjustment will help.

Once you find the rhythm and sweet spot it’s all good. But if you try to go at it like a lot of other bikes and just click it once stopped, not gonna happen. at least that’s been my experience with the ones I’ve owned over the years.

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

Hey !
Welcome to the Forum.
You have posted an FAQ.
If you search "Hard to get into neutral" you will get 73 threads adressing this issue.
They are quite informative.

Dude.

 

[member28833]

I've never understood the troubles so often mentioned about finding neutral.
Having only owned 77, 78, 79 models myself all I can contribute is that these models with low mileage find neutral fairly well. Either up from 1st or down from 2nd.
Even the last 79 with only 7k miles shifted just fine.
I'm thinking other year clutches or maybe higher mileage XS's must be more difficult?

Proper toes on slendor boots perhaps?
4 XS's so far, no neutral issues.

 

[jun8ior]

Hard to get into neutral

cheers!

 

[jun8ior]

I've never understood the troubles so often mentioned about finding neutral.
Having only owned 77, 78, 79 models myself all I can contribute is that these models with low mileage find neutral fairly well. Either up from 1st or down from 2nd.
Even the last 79 with only 7k miles shifted just fine.
I'm thinking other year clutches or maybe higher mileage XS's must be more difficult?

Proper toes on slendor boots perhaps?
4 XS's so far, no neutral issues.

I've had it for almost a year, I think it has gotten worse. I adjusted the clutch the other week and it was better, but it needs another go.
It rod isnt very tight, if I make it tight then the clutch is a bitch to pull/hold

 

[bosco659]

I've never understood the troubles so often mentioned about finding neutral.
Having only owned 77, 78, 79 models myself all I can contribute is that these models with low mileage find neutral fairly well. Either up from 1st or down from 2nd.
Even the last 79 with only 7k miles shifted just fine.
I'm thinking other year clutches or maybe higher mileage XS's must be more difficult?

Proper toes on slendor boots perhaps?
4 XS's so far, no neutral issues.

You’re one of the lucky ones. Even with good clutch adjustment finding neutral is a real pita on my ‘76. Thinking I should try the Magura clutch lever assembly to get more cable travel. I suppose I should also check to see which lever assembly I have. Don’t ride the bike too often do as annoying as it is, I forget about it the day after.

 

[nj1639]

It's best to be in first when stopped at a red light regardless of finding neutral or not.
That being said, neutral is easiest found for me while decelerating and nudging the shifter down from second - but there is a sweet spot in adjusting overall, just need to find it for your bike.
Adjust while cold?
Adjust while hot?
1/6 turn backing off the adjustment screw?
1/8" backing off the adjustment screw?
Worm gear cracked?
Worm gear lubed?
Perch adjustment?
Become an expert for your machine.

 

[bosco659]

In my case I should also look at total cable pull since I have an aftermarket clutch perch and lever. Maybe that is limiting cable travel and plate separation. I think I’ll get my dial indicator out and try to measure the amount of pushrod travel.

 

[5twins]

I did something similar several years back - I measured the pressure plate movement .....

I think this is the underlying issue with these clutches, barely enough plate separation. The problem gets even worse as the bike heats up because more freeplay develops in the lever, which means less pushrod movement and plate separation. Finding neutral gets more difficult. I adjust my clutch up pretty snug cold. Set up like this and measured, I only got about .060" or about 1.5mm of movement for plate separation .....

Setting it "by the book" (worm screw backed out 1/4 turn from touching, lever freeplay set to 1/8" or 3/16") made it quite a bit worse. Pressure plate travel dropped to about .052" or 1.3mm.

 

[Mailman]

I think this is the underlying issue with these clutches, barely enough plate separation. The problem gets even worse as the bike heats up because more freeplay develops in the lever, which means less pushrod movement and plate separation. Finding neutral gets more difficult. I

Amen brother! I wonder how much clutch separation the guys with hydraulic systems are getting? I can’t believe there never was an aftermarket solution for this. That little clutch worm just doesn’t have much side to side travel.

 

[bosco659]

I did something similar several years back - I measured the pressure plate movement .....

I think this is the underlying issue with these clutches, barely enough plate separation. The problem gets even worse as the bike heats up because more freeplay develops in the lever, which means less pushrod movement and plate separation. Finding neutral gets more difficult. I adjust my clutch up pretty snug cold. Set up like this and measured, I only got about .060" or about 1.5mm of movement for plate separation .....

Setting it "by the book" (worm screw backed out 1/4 turn from touching, lever freeplay set to 1/8" or 3/16") made it quite a bit worse. Pressure plate travel dropped to about .052" or 1.3mm.

I’m surprised there’s only .008” difference between “snug” and “by the book”. I keep mine adjusted “snug” as well. Otherwise, once heated up, additional adjustment would be needed. I’m using a one piece aluminum rod and 8 plate conversion.

 

[member28833]

Hey Mailman how well does your 77 find neutral ?

 

[Mailman]

Hey Mailman how well does your 77 find neutral ?

Its not really hard, most of the time it’s easy actually. When it gets hot it can be a little more difficult, when that happens, all I usually need to do is feather the clutch while toeing the shift lever and it falls right in to neutral .
It’s more a matter of just learning your bike and what it likes.

 

[dps650rider]

Wear in the clutch hub where the steel plates run in the spline and wear in the basket where the friction plates ride are a couple big factors. I replaced these a few years ago with pristine used parts and it was perfect for a while. They wear causing the plates to hang up.

 

[Jan_P]

Not read it all .
But as I have done it.
It is always possible to adjust it so it is easy to shift ..also to neutral but it will then slip at the other end.if to loose ..
I adjust with the Foot against the tire.
At standstill with rear wheel in the air. Central stand.
In first gear .. .clutch handle out .... let it idle wheel spins in the air.. .Pull in the clutch try to stop the wheel with your foot ( Not sneakers or Roman sandals of course as in the song ) against the side of the tire .
If the clutch is to tight that is difficult or impossible to do then I adjust at the worm gear ..Doing it again.
Eventually there is a situation where it is reasonably simple to stop.The wheel idling in gear and clutch handle in.
Quick short road trip Gloves / Wrench was it 13 mm and / JIS Screwdriver . If slips then adjust back off a little.
At times after a change ..wire or so ... I have those tools with me .But no need to change after the first one or two adjustments.
And again as mentioned here Knowing your bike .Putting in neutral at an early stage entering a stop .
Warm days.
Mine is an 1980 late 79 so maybe the clutch is the same.
Personally I don't mind where the lever engages .and have at times had stiff " Schwarzenegger " wires
But now I have a new one.
Adjustment should get it better I do believe.

 

[dps650rider]

When the hub and basket are worn more separation still won't fix it. I have put more than 150000 miles on my bike and have dealt with this many times. The plates hang up on the grooves worn in the aluminum and can't separate.

 

[dps650rider]

I'm swapping my hub today with a spare I cleaned up with a dremel and a file.

 

[dps650rider]

Here is a pic of one that is worn.

 

[5twins]

Yes, I'm sure that will help, but if you widen the slots (narrow the teeth) too much, I think you'll get what they call clutch "chatter". The metal plates will rattle around in there because of the loose fit between their teeth and the now wider slots.