Help save my trip! Bike doesn't run when warm

Yes I will get a rewound rotor for sure. But it won't help me for the trip I want to take this weekend :(

I just ordered a new reg rec from carmo. Gonna call them tomorrow to see if I can get it asap.

Here are some details from the rotor. Note that I made it look like.copper with Scotch b. The gray is the carbon I guess

IMG_20200907_223456102.jpg

IMG_20200907_223538379.jpg

IMG_20200907_223546953.jpg

IMG_20200907_223613706.jpg

IMG_20200907_223841033_HDR.jpg
 
Jan_P said:
Hi again
As before
At times you can see over 14 V . Indicating that perhaps the alternator is working.
If Friday is important . New alternator parts might not be available until then
But regulator and rectifier parts perhaps can be bought over the counter at a Automotive
supplier.
Something like that ..but don't connect it wrong it fries then
https://www.rotatingelectrics.co.uk...-bosch-3-pin-volvo-ford-bmw-wood-auto-vrg3639
Click to expand...
That looks like the 'B' type. He needs an 'A' type. Look for a Fiat VR-794. Here's a how-to for the A type.
 
Bjorn said:
Yes I will get a rewound rotor for sure. But it won't help me for the trip I want to take this weekend :(

I just ordered a new reg rec from carmo. Gonna call them tomorrow to see if I can get it asap.

Here are some details from the rotor. Note that I made it look like.copper with Scotch b. The gray is the carbon I guess
Click to expand...
Pull the stator and clean those rings up. I use 800G wet-or-dry paper. Some people here use a metal polish on 'em. If you do that, wipe the rings down after with a solvent to remove any polish residue. Put it back together and give it a try. At this point it couldn't hurt.
 
I ordered this reg rec:
CARR321 Electrex discription manual.jpg


I can't pull the rotor because I don't have a puller. maybe someone can tell me the basic dimensions? Like treadsize . I can machine one at work tomorrow
 
Jim said:
That looks like the 'B' type. He needs an 'A' type. Look for a Fiat VR-794. Here's a how-to for the A type.
Click to expand...

Yes yes yes --- that is right --posted before picture
At the pictures it can be seen that it is the newer Alternator version
 
Paul Sutton said:
Jim, the bike ran strong with the brushes removed. Could this be a case of the weak rare earth magnet??
Click to expand...
It could be Paul, but to be honest, I'm not convinced that's actually a "thing." I've rewound at least 30 TCI rotors now and never ran across one with a weak magnet.
I think the weak magnet theory causes missing after startup when the charging system is maxed out recharging the battery. As the current drops in the rotor when the batt replenishes, the rough running goes away. At least that's what I've read about that theory.
 
Guys, for my understanding, what could happen due to temperature inside the reg/rec that could cause this misfiring/stumbling?

Voltage peaks that mess with the entire system of the bike? Including the ignition?
 
Hi
That is an electrical problem .. In circuits there are components that have a Point of usage and a span
I am not sure about the English words but please google Transistor work span and so
fex a transistor has allowable currents and voltages.
To low on a component it might not " open up " properly " to high it might not be able to withstand the applied physics.
A coil -- the same the wires has a resistance if a higher current is applied more heat is generated more heat gives more thermal expansion.
That can lead to that two winding in a coil comes in contact with each other or the core as in fex an alternator stator.
Short circuit ..that can result in less resistance and more current going to ground blow the fuse..

Perhaps the analogy with over revving an engine standing still at the parking lot can be an analogy
Sooner or later the bike then seizes the .. physics ..gets to difficult for the design

The same can happen with electronics in Motorcycles

That regulator / rectifier you have is so to speak a black box with components inside
Usually in automotive what components are a trade secret a Know How that gives an Business advantage.
Rarely it gets out what happens especially if a program is involved in a Electronic controller for a modern car

Now the regulator can cause if faulty the wrong physics to go out into the system so the short circuit Is not necessary in the Regulator although faulty.

I remember press about a Suzuki model in the early eighties with a bad design
Parking the Bike for winter and no charger attached or charge before startup
Come spring the owner started the bike with a low battery .
The regulator then demanded full charging .And since the battery was low this was under a prolonged time so long that the regulator
could not withstand it ..it fried.
But it fried in such a manner that the alternator kept charging and it also fried.
In fault finding perhaps the fault in only one object was found say the alternator with not replacing the regulator
And the second alternator fried a second time Expensive.
Now that was a bad design
But to sum it up what happens inside that black box are in most cases a trade secret.
What happens when things go wrong inside such a black box is virtually impossible to figure out.
But speaking of a stock regulator it can put out to high Voltage and causing that short circuit somewhere else .
With luck an adjustment it may work again. But electronics are not adjustable but better regulators.

So I believe that the regulator is defect ( at all temperatures ) but the actual short circuit ( temperature issue ) is somewhere else.
And takes a while to heat things up.
Of course it can be inside the regulator ..but it is known that the alternator fries. At times .
Boyer Branden is fex Sensitive for low voltage and i Believe also for high voltage.
I believe there is some sort of shutoff built in .. ( not certain about that )

But again this is difficult the regulator can be fine and the Alternator being the problem
Here are better experienced gentlemen . that perhaps knows how to find out.
As i mentioned I would replace up in the price range and eventually find it.
I kept the stock regulator that I know work and are easy to plug in And rectifier is not complicated
Then I can eliminate those parts ...
 
Bjorn said:
I ordered this reg rec:
View attachment 174842

I can't pull the rotor because I don't have a puller. maybe someone can tell me the basic dimensions? Like treadsize . I can machine one at work tomorrow
Click to expand...

Did he order the correct reg rec? I notice he has tci pickup on his bike not one in advertisement?
Double check on this bjorn,
 
I find it hard to understand the possible failure of the reg/rec affecting the bike. I've heard before that the regulation of the charging could go out hence voltages of more that 15 volt. But since I don't see this, and the battery doesn't seem to be cooked. And the whole system returns to "normal" after cooling down.

O well, maybe I'm just asking to many questions haha.

Regarding the part I ordered, they make you choose your type of bike in the webshop. It for a 1980 and onwards.
I did call them and now it appears the part is not In stock.....
I did get a lead to a xs650 owners club nearby that might sell me parts. Fingers crossed
 
Bjorn said:
Put the new puller to the test: works great.
View attachment 175009
View attachment 175010
Old rotor.


Just traded my rotor for a rewound one. Turned out it was already rewound, but no idea how long ago. Also got a used but good reg rec. Lots of wrenching to do the day before we leave....
Click to expand...

Yes Sir that is talented innovative work right there ,,Now do a check on the stator so it is not shorting to core and between the whites. When it is out.
I looks as you still can go on Friday.
Might be a good idea to take the right size socket with you on the trip if the rotor needs a check
and re-tightening
I once had one come loose.
Not so much job left if everything is as it looks
 
Bjorn said:
Just traded my rotor for a rewound one.
Click to expand...
As someone who rewinds these rotors, I'm gonna give a word of caution here. When that rotor was rewound, it's possible to miss by 1 or 2 splines when pressing it back together. I recently did one where I missed by 1 spline. that moved the timing mark AND the trigger magnet off by about 2° advanced. What I'm getting at is if you run advanced, there's a good possibility of putting holes in the pistons on your long trip. Can the garage give you some assurance that they checked the clocking to make sure it's correct? Failing that, will they let you use your old rotor to verify the timing on the new one?
 
Last edited:
Jim said:
As someone who rewinds these rotors, I'm gonna give a word of caution here. When that rotor was rewound, it's possible to miss by 1 or 2 splines when pressing it back together. I recently did one where I missed by 1 spline. that moved the timing mark AND the trigger magnet off by about 2° advanced. What I'm getting at is if you run advanced, there's a good possibility of putting holes in the pistons on your long trip. Can the garage give you some assurance that they checked the clocking to make sure it's correct? Failing that, will they let you use your old rotor to verify the timing on the new one?
Click to expand...

Im afraid not... I got these from the Dutch XS club. They sell new, used and refurbished parts. I asked the guy where this was rewound, he didn't know.

I left my old rotor with them, I can't verify this.
Is there any way I can check this without?
 

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